Mini range report Model 8 Grade 4

[mattitude]

As promised here is my small range report of "Sophie", my 1908 vintage Model 8 "grade 4" factory engraved rifle. I just picked up 100 rounds of Federal 200gr RNSP and 40 rounds of Hornady 200gr FTX ammo along with a Lee 3 die set so that I'll be able to reload for the optimum performance of the rifle once the factory ammo is gone.

I shot her on Wednesday evening around 6:00pm and brought 60 rounds with me just in case I really enjoyed shooting her...well, I only ended up firing 15 rounds if that says anything. Typically I don't care for straight stocks on rifles and this one doesn't have much drop so it's hard for me to get behind the rifle and have enough surface area on my shoulder to take the recoil and these 200 grainers really let me feel the laws of physics in use. I can shoot my .308 bolt rifle (12lb rifle, 168gr Amax rounds) all day long and not even leave a mark, but Sophie really socked it to me.



I was initially concerned that I wouldn't be able to properly line up my sights as the rear sight has a very narrow & shallow notch, but in natural lighting I didn't have a problem at all. I loaded up the magazine with 5 rounds of the Federal and fired at a target on the 25 yard line to initially verify proper function and sight alignment. The rifle fired perfectly but the ejected empties didn't seem to go very far at all from the action, maybe less than a foot...unlike any other centerfire semi auto which will throw the empties no less than 10 feet away. Anyway, the Federal's grouped very well at about 3.5" high with no windage correction needed.


After the warm up session, I put up 2 targets on the 50 yard line which I could get at least 2 groups between the Federal and Hornady ammo. I didn't want to take it to the 100 yard line because I would just be kidding myself as I can barely see that far without having to look through sights as it is. Again I was surprised by how well the Federal grouped at 50 yards with the group about 3" high and dead center windage wise.


The Hornady shot just as well as the Federal but the shots went just a hair left. Also the holes weren't punched as cleanly and I can only think that it's because the Hornady has a very sharp tip which pierces the paper, but gets torn when the "body" of the projectile pushes through. The group size is comparable between the 2 loads but I'm sure that the Hornady has better long range ballistics...even though I can't see far enough to take advantage of the extra distance and energy.


All in all the rifle is an excellent shooter for being 105 years old and I fully believe that she has many more years left in her. In time I would like to try out some 180gr spire point projectiles to see if I can get her to be a little more comfortable to shoot and still maintain decent accuracy for hunting. I got a "fixer upper" tang sight coming so hopefully I can get that up and working and it would be nice if I could squeeze a bit more accuracy and range out of her with it. I guess that will be "part 2" of the report when I get that working and mounted.

[Sarge756]

Pretty good shooting so far Matt. Thanks for the report and the photos. Again that is a handsome rifle to be proud of. Your feeling that the straight stock is contributing to the felt recoil may be correct but I assure you the ones with a pistol grip give a good shove too. For the weight of the rifle it should be a pussy cat but it ain`t. Lots going on besides an explosion and a 200 gr bullet leaving the muzzle at a pretty good clip. The long recoil action transfers a lot of force to the rear when all that metal and weight get moving and make an abrupt stop at the rear of the receiver. After that ,the next stop is your shoulder. Don`t know if you have other rifles in 35 Remington but having shot my Marlin 336 Carbine and a 141 Remington there is no doubt in my mind that the Model 8 in 35 just plain kicks harder. The factory loaded rounds are really not that hot but then the case capacity limits just how fast you can get the bullet going. For hunting and taking deer sized animals and hogs the 200 gr RN bullet would be hard to improve. It gives you what a 35 Rem is supposed to; a bit deader animal than you would have with a 170gr out of a 30-30 Win. The Hornady Leverevolution rounds show a pretty good jump in performance over a standard 30-30 round but not so much with the 35. I think Hornady has done a good job with marketing and yes they are real pretty with that sexy red tip. With no benefit gained in our 8`s, because we can already shoot pointy bullets out of them,I don`t see the extra expense.
You are already a reloader so working up loads that will soften the recoil while still functioning properly and maintaining accuracy should be the goal. Loading down 150gr Rem corelokts would be my starting point. Hornady offers 158gr flatpoints and of course cast bullets in a lighter weight could be an option also. Lighter bullet....less powder...and your time at the range with more rounds down range.
Joe

[DWalt]

All of that moving metal mass coming to a quick stop does make itself felt. I used a Remington Model 11 12 gauge shotgun (same as the long-recoil Browning A5) for many years, and always noted that its felt recoil was somewhat more than with other shotguns shooting the same load. A couple of years ago, my brother, who is no 90-pound weakling and no stranger to guns, fired my Model 81 using full-power .300 Savage reloads. He stopped after one shot.

About the only option for purely recreational shooting with the 8/81 in .35 Rem and .300 Savage is to develop lighter loads that will function the action reliably. For hunting, the felt recoil does not present a great problem.

[Phyrbird]

Try this:

http://www.limbsaver.com/store/product. ... 268&page=1

[mattitude]

This is my first experience with the 35 Remington round so I really didn't know what to expect...but I know that anything throwing a 200gr projectile 2000+ fps will dish out some punishment. I owned an older Ruger 44 Carbine and the recoil was likened to a 20 gauge shotgun and also felt more punishing than shooting the same loads through my revolver!! I'm no stranger to big bore guns as I've owned 2 .50 BMG single shot rifles and a more practical 450 Marlin 1895G rifle. I believe that I just need more time and practice with Sophie and also when hunting season rolls around I won't be shooting in a t-shirt like I am now at the range.

My first shotgun was a Remington 11-48 12 gauge and when I was stationed in northern Japan I purchased 4 1920's & 1930's vintage Browning Auto-5 12 gauges and found them very pleasant to shoot. I'll try out some 180 grain loads and possibly some 150 grainers if the accuracy is acceptable for range fodder. I'm very anal retentive when it comes to accuracy when I reload, so if I can't reach a certain level of accuracy then I'll just have to suck up the punishment and just deal with it. I did have 2 right shoulder surgeries (I've had a total of 13 surgeries and I still need a minimum of 2 more in the future) so I can only take so much.

The Hornady FTX rounds are pretty sexy but they don't make nice and neat holes in paper, but they do make big holes in game animals. From my research 100 FTX projectiles are no more than 2.00 a box than regular 200gr RN projectiles so I don't mind spending the extra dollar or so on an excellent game projectile. I don't have any experience loading lead projectiles (I've only loaded jacketed in my 20+ years of reloading if you can believe that) but if I can get an accurate & comfortable load up and running with little to no leading then I would be interested.

[81police]

Great shooting Matt! You've got a very nice rifle. I believe period Remington advertising claimed internal components on grades #4 and up were hand polished. I've never investigated this but if it's true they should make for a smooth operating system.

For hunting, the felt recoil does not present a great problem.

I couldn't agree more with Dwalt. I've always thought the M81 in 300Sav had the most recoil, although the 35Rem in either 8 or 81 is no slouch. You might need to pick up a Model 8 in 25Rem for a shoulder pleasing day at the range!

[Roger]

Sir, I believe I might be of some assistance when reloading hunting rounds for rem. M-8/81 s. I've been reloading@ hunting with all 5 calibers for probably 10 yrs. now. I've spent countless hrs. at the bench testing these rounds thru 70-100 year old m8/81 s. I've killed deer with 4 out of 5 of the calibers. Let me assure you that the Hornady FTX bullets are worth any extra cost they may present to you. They are generally more accurate than any of the other bullets I've loaded for 35 Rem. They knock any deer silly in a heartbeat. It's usually lights out with no extra fanfare.
Email me if I can be of any help to your work.
Thanks for your time,
Roger

[Phyrbird]

Mattitude,

You might have decent luck with cast bullets; see one of my earlier posts.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3155

I like the Lee moulds if you're not casting thousands of bullets. I would suggest a 200-220g gas check type. They will like the twist rates for the old rifles. However do be sure your barrel is well cleaned B4 you start with cast rounds, it helps.
By the way, cast is way cheaper than jacketed.

[imfuncity]

I second the extra pad, especially from the bench.

As a righty shooting left, might I suggest for the sake of your right shoulder you try shooting left? Brass ejects are a bit entertaining at times, other then that being a semi-auto makes it easy.

And then, when it really gets to be too much of a pain, I'll be a nice guy and take it off your hands for what you have in it. I'll even pay shipping!

(Hey Joe, what was that about a pirate...? Here I am willing to pay him full price!!)

[mattitude]

I just need some more trigger time to get the bench technique down for this old girl...if that doesn't pan out then I'll take a harder look at the slip on pad. I don't think I'll be attempting shooting lefty any time soon and also the ejection isn't an issue as the brass pretty much dribbles out of the action. I'd be willing to bet that the ejector spring needs replacement as I can push in the ejector plunger with my finger with little pressure.

Once reloading components become more readily available I'll look into cast bullets for her. Right now I can find jacketed projectiles fairly easily at the moment and I already have everything else to get rounds loaded and right now gas checks are an extra expense that I can barely afford right now.

I'm surprised it took this long to get my first offer for Sophie, even if it's for what I have into her She's a special lady to me and unless she really pisses me off (or I get bored with her) she's staying in the safe at my house...unless someone has more money than brains then I'll be more than happy to pass her off I'm hoping to get a visit from one of the board members tomorrow as he will be in town to visit family for the weekend. He's supposedly bringing up one of his 8's and we'll hit the range (weather permitting) for some vintage shooting.

[imfuncity]

"...unless someone has more money than brains then I'll be more than happy to pass her off."
Interesting that you posted this just before mentioning Joe was coming for a visit!

Remember the internet adage, "No pictures, it didn't happen."

[mattitude]

Well, Joe and his S-I-L Reid stopped by my house for a little bit and then hit the range with my Grade 4 Model 8 and he also brought one of his 8's in .30 Remington to shoot (among a few others...I also brought my SSG-82 5.45x39 rifle & Remington 700 that I built) and we set up on the 50 yard line solely for the fact that open sights for me & Joe are useless at 100 yards. Reid shot an unbelievable 3-shot cloverleaf with my Model 8, and yes Joe took pics. I'm sure he'll either post here or just start up another thread. We all had a great time and I was very happy to meet them both. They are very good people.

Interesting that you posted this just before mentioning Joe was coming for a visit!

Remember the internet adage, "No pictures, it didn't happen."

[Sarge756]

Matt,
TOLDJA ! Mitch, is just a bit impatient. Just got home about an hour ago. After a nap (Old guys have to have a nap or they get cranky) I`ll get the photos posted. Stand by Mitch, cause the group Reid shot is a keeper for sure.
Joe