Scabbard for Model 8/81?

[gunny5821]

Does anyone know if there was what would be known as an original production leather saddle/vehicle rifle scabbard for the Model 8/81 rifles. I know that there were a couple of takedown cases, but I haven't run across any info on a scabbard. I have an early Model 8 and want to make some to add to our other custom line of military/western goods if there would be enough interest. In addition, what would have been the most common sling if any used on the rifle without swivels. Photos and information would help a great deal. I just rebuilt a heavy stitcher made in 1912 with a special attachment for sewing the toe plug in scabbards for rifles/shotguns which have a large diameter muzzle such as the Model 8/81.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Richard L. Turner
GySgt USMCR Ret

Turner Saddlery, Inc.
turnersling.com
800-861-5139
205-680-9377
205-680-4250 fax

[DWalt]

This is not much help, but I have a 1914 catalog from the Hibbard Spencer Bartlett & Company, which was a very large wholesale hardware (and everything else) distributor located in Chicago. They offered a huge selection of gun cases and scabbards (which they call sheaths), but the only one specifically mentioning the Remington automatic is that pictured below. See the area near the bottom. It's made of duck with leather trimmings, and is in two connected parts, one each for the barrel and the stock/receiver. None of the many saddle-type scabbard descriptions shown in the catalog mention any as being made specifically for the Model 8 (but some other guns are mentioned).



I'm certain that many Model 8s rode in saddle scabbards carried by cowboys, Texas Rangers, etc., but I have not seen any such scabbards. You may want to contact the Texas Ranger Museum in Waco to see if they might have some pictures of such scabbards. There's lots of ranger stuff there.

[gunny5821]

DWalt:

Thanks for the info. If there is not a Model 8 specific saddle scabbard, I'll design one when I have time. I would have thought someone back in the 1900s would have come up with a good saddle scabbard design, but they may have just cut a slot at the throat of a 1886 Winchester scabbard to accommodate the bolt operating knob for the Model 8. For a canvas/leather take down case, I use a Boyt Harness Co. case. They make a single barrel breakdown case with a brass zipper that is 28" OAL, it could stand to be 2" or 3" shorter, but works great. It has an accessory pocket on the side that will accommodate a 12 round leather cartridge belt slide with ease. We sold these years ago, and they are great cases. Here is a link for the take down case, and I just saw that Amazon has them for about $105. Not historically correct, but great for travel and protecting the rifle.

http://www.boytharness.com/inventoryD.a ... AA351ED7B8}

[Sarge756]

This is a W.R. Leigh print of a running gun fight with the shooters armed with Remington Model 8`s. A scabbard is pictured on the lead horse with the shooter and a Model 8. Not much detail but at least answers question of whether they were carried on horseback.
Joe

[Roger]

I personally have 4 model 8 s that are perported to be from working cattle ranches. New Mexico,Arizona, Idaho, and Utah. Unfortunately no mention of scabbards was made by any of the sellers I bought these from.
They all look the part,so I don't doubt the histories of these rifles. I actually wish I could put an original scabbard into my collection, but as of now ,I have no leads on any. I wish I could be of more help to you.
Thanks for your time
Roger

[Sarge756]

I was looking through some photos of Model 8`s someone had posted on photobucket and came across couple pictures below of a saddle scabbard. Hope that helps with the design.
Joe

[Adam Lee]

Interesting - I'm going to be thinking about a take-down case for my guns soon enough - not so much a scabbard, though, since I am an "urban rebel"....

thanks for the pics guys - it definitely got me thinking!

Adam

[jim8008]

Looks like a Lyon & Coulson M1 Garand scabbard.

[Phyrbird]

Adam,

Check this out!! viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3276

Would there be any interest in a new old stock reproduction??

I'm trying to get the local Mennonites to make some for us. Been working on it for almost a year.
Note: you still can find the old REdhead cases, but they are usually dry rotted and falling apart....

[jim8008]

Or Boyt.

[imfuncity]

Would there be any interest in a new old stock reproduction??

I'm trying to get the local Mennonites to make some for us. Been working on it for almost a year.

If I haven't said it before... anything comes from this idea I'd be interested.

[Adam Lee]

Would there be any interest in a new old stock reproduction??

I'm trying to get the local Mennonites to make some for us. Been working on it for almost a year.

If I haven't said it before... anything comes from this idea I'd be interested.

another PLUS ONE.......+1.......on the repro leather/carry cases like yours Carl.....

Adam

[Phyrbird]

I'm onit

Let's make a list of recipients, 5 would get us a good price, 10 gets better. My brother is drooling for one too. (Slurp Slurp)

Boyt

[ROBOPUMP]

I'm in if not much over $250.00. Much less would be great. I guess that is now 2+.

[Adam Lee]

I'm onit

Let's make a list of recipients, 5 would get us a good price, 10 gets better. My brother is drooling for one too. (Slurp Slurp)

Boyt

Carl,
we should probably separate this thread from the original poster's thread. He was looking for data on the leather scabbards for 8's and 81's, but we're all excited about the Redhead-style break-down travel cases here, right?

Just a thought. And Carl, we should probably get some sort of poll thread going to tally up honestly interested folks who'd be willing to put cash into such a project, like you might see guys do on gunboards for example.

Adam

[DWalt]

Regarding the earlier scabbard picture, it has to be of one made for the M1 Garand rifle. I have one of those scabbards somewhere in my accumulation, and if I find it, I'll see if an M8 or M81 fits OK. I never actually knew what those scabbards were intended for. My guess was to stow an M1 on a Jeep or some other vehicle, maybe a tank, 6X6 truck, motorcycle, etc. Probably not for horseback use, as there weren't many cavalry horses used during WWII (but the horse cavalry didn't actually vanish until 1944) but who knows? My scabbard is in pretty good shape, but it's missing the leather straps.

[Phyrbird]

Gunny,

Apologize for hi-jacking Your thread. Sorry

I'll start a new one and add the link in this one for those interested...

[gunny5821]

Phyrbird:

Not a problem, been paying attention to the post on the Leg of Mutton style cases. There is a lot of work in building and putting this type of case together. Holland & Holland used to make one and 10 years ago they were over $1,000. There is no one that I am aware of in the U.S. making these, that is of good quality anyway. I don't know anything about Jeff's Outfitters, or whom makes these for him, but from from what I can see in the photos, they look pretty decent for $275. If there were enough interest, he would probably have some made up scaled around the dimensions of the Model 8/81. He also has a similar soft sided heavy leather breakdown case.

I have never made one of the leg of mutton cases, but have repaired many in years past. Based on what I know about their construction, there is about 8 - 10 hours labor plus materials (including making a wooden form) to make one in the quality range of a Holland & Holland or vintage Redhead brand case. If I'm not mistaken, H.H. Heiser made many of the leather items and cases for Redhead, therefore #1 quality. There is probably 7 to 8 SqFt of leather used in the construction of one of these cases, when you also calculate waist. Just to give you an idea on leather cost, our hides are running just over $9.00 per SqFt, for #1 grade U.S. English Bridle Leather and we buy direct 40 + hides on a good month.

Here is a link to the case Jeff's Outfitters case:

http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/LEACAS22 ... egoryid=70

We specialize in U.S. Military Leather from the WWI & WWII period, but now are revisiting some of the more western style scabbards, cartridge belts, and holsters that we used to make 20+ years ago. When I finish the scabbard that I have designed for the Model 8/81, I'll post some photos. Currently rebuilding a machine which is set up to sew a box stitch with an angle attachment. This machine is used to sew leather cases and the end plug in scabbards such as the Model 8 and the M1 Garand type scabbards.

Regards,

Richard

[Adam Lee]

cool stuff Richard! great to hear directly from a supplier/fabricator of hobby-related items. I have seen your products in "real life" and I recommend them!

Adam

[gunny5821]

Adam thanks!

If I find the time, I am planning on making one of the vintage type canvas and leather soft cases. The only canvas I have on hand is the OD Green heavy military tarp/vehicle canvas which is treated, I believe it is either 16 or 18oz weight. It tends to have a little rub off since it is treated, but other than the smell it will serve my purpose well.

I have to thank DWalt, since he sent a message about one of the vintage canvas cases he saw on ebay. The auction was over, but I contacted the seller who re-listed the case as "Buy it Now" for $9.95. Great deal for a pattern to work with. It is a Lyon & Coulson case and only about 3" too long for the Model 8/81. It had some stitiching that needed to be repaired, but other than that, it is in great shape. From the looks of it, it was probably made sometime during the 1920s or 1930s. When I make a copy, I am going to shorten the pattern so its a good fit for my Model 8, in .35 Rem (which was made in 1908), and instead of just a single thickness of canvas, I am going to quilt about three layers of the heavy treated canvas. Haven't decided what to line the interior with yet, but I may use some untreated light canvas I have.

I am planning on making several different cartridge slides and a cartridge pouch (safari type) for the .35 Remington cartridge as well. I am going to scale down some patterns I have used in the past in making cartridge pouches and slides for the big game cartridges such as the .404 Jeffery and .460 Weatherby. When I have time, I really enjoy building/reproducing leather accoutrements from a bygone era. Not to toot my own horn, but I have always worked with the attitude "I will not send it out the door if it is not as good as or better than the original".

By the way, I enjoy your post. I can tell your very detailed oriented.

Regards,

Richard

[TMB]

Regarding the earlier scabbard picture, it has to be of one made for the M1 Garand rifle. I have one of those scabbards somewhere in my accumulation, and if I find it, I'll see if an M8 or M81 fits OK. I never actually knew what those scabbards were intended for. My guess was to stow an M1 on a Jeep or some other vehicle, maybe a tank, 6X6 truck, motorcycle, etc. Probably not for horseback use, as there weren't many cavalry horses used during WWII (but the horse cavalry didn't actually vanish until 1944) but who knows? My scabbard is in pretty good shape, but it's missing the leather straps.

The M1 Garand scabbard does work. When I bought my 81 300 Savage it was in a original Garand scabbard.

[Adam Lee]

General Tubby Barton.jpg (78.19 KiB) Viewed 24019 times

Just for grins, here's a vintage pic of General "Tubby" Barton driving his own Jeep in September, 1944, when elements of his division (the 4th) first entered German territory along the Siegfried Line.

Notice his M-1 in its scabbard - mounted to the driver's side of the Jeep.

Adam

[Seamus]

I have the same scabbard that Sarge756 presented in the pictures. This one was purchased by my great-grandfather in '47 possibly in Colorado. my grandfather was present as well. It appears to be a viable saddle scabbard. I love this old gun for sentimental reasons as well for the fine repeater that it is.

[Phyrbird]

Gunny,
when you are making the canvas models please consider making one that could accept our ladies with a scope mounted. From experience I can tell our fellow authors the Redhead style will not. Hope you are making progress with the machine as I have an interest for a mutton or oval case for my brother's Browning BLR takedown.
I am sure all of us are interested in leather or waxed canvas scabbards as well. I have a particular liking for water resistant canvas. Dad always said a leather or plastic case could cause condensation in storage. A user of Browning gun oil, I have little chance to this to occur.
Thank our group for making this topic one of the better. And for being kind about my side tracks.
CarlWS