So I think I got spoiled by the first 81...
A 2nd rifle, in .35 Remington, followed me home recently, but has some kinks to iron out.
And I'm mostly a Sawzall/4#sledge-kinda guy, so delicate mechanics are new territory for me...
The bolt assembly does not lock back reliably, either when manually cycled or when the magazine empties. It's intermittent; I'm suspicious that the mag indicator spring is either gummed up or broken?
I also had 2 FTF in 10 rounds as I checked her for soundness. I was using factory Corelokt 150gr ammo, all from one box. Primer strike marks present. Neither round fired with a second or third try. Not first or last round of magazine.
My initial list of possible reasons would be bad primers in this lot; problem with firing pin spring (worn, burred, gummed); or from reading about .35 and other rimless rounds, possible headspace issue allowing forward case movement with firing pin strike.
I managed to find another box of ammo locally (a small miracle!), at a price I don't want to admit, in 200gr RN, and went through 10 rounds without an issue. Ran both original FTFs, one fired this time, one didn't.
So primer issues make more sense at this point. But would the heavier round 'shift' less, if this is a headspace problem?
Anywho, I'm planning with some trepidation to dissemble the receiver, avoiding the Sawzall and sledge, and clean everything as much as possible, then see if either issue improves.
Any input, experience, or direction would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Dale
.35 Model 81 questions
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
Dale, "intermittent" would lead me to believe that you are on the right track as to the cause being gummed up etc. This link has been posted before but I listed again to assist you. Note that no sledges or sawzalls used.
Joe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/buster_cha ... 42/detail/
Joe
http://www.flickr.com/photos/buster_cha ... 42/detail/
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
Thanks for the link, Sarge. I hadn't gotten to that one; watched the Jim Green video of taking the rifle down (not including barrel and bolt), so I THINK I can manage w/o my usual go-to tools (it'll be hard, though). The step-by-step pics in the flikr set are likely to be much more helpful for the actual 'doing'.
I'm inclined as well at this point to blame gunk for both issues. However, searching for FTF .35 rem info sent me over to the Marlin owners' site (where they're crazy about the .35 and have lots of good info, including reloading favorites); they seem to suspect the action of those rifles loosening over time and allowing too much headspace to get a clean strike without a rim to hold the case. If I get this rig cleaned, try other brands and loads of factory ammo, and continue to get this, my next step may be contact Mr. Green (apparently practically my neighbor, just a couple/three hours up the coast from me) about breaking down the bolt itself and checking for spacing in the receiver.
Appreciate the moral support!
Dale
I'm inclined as well at this point to blame gunk for both issues. However, searching for FTF .35 rem info sent me over to the Marlin owners' site (where they're crazy about the .35 and have lots of good info, including reloading favorites); they seem to suspect the action of those rifles loosening over time and allowing too much headspace to get a clean strike without a rim to hold the case. If I get this rig cleaned, try other brands and loads of factory ammo, and continue to get this, my next step may be contact Mr. Green (apparently practically my neighbor, just a couple/three hours up the coast from me) about breaking down the bolt itself and checking for spacing in the receiver.
Appreciate the moral support!
Dale
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
My Model 8 .35 loves those Remington factory 200gr RN. They seem to be the most accurate out of my gun (also I think the slowest round, which is good for the large, slow spiral of the bore)
I've found some Hornady 200gr RN for reloading and will practice with those, but I'll always use those Rem 200gr for hunting (as long as I can find them at least, a recent look on Remington's website did not have the .35, 200gr RN listed as a current product, only the 150gr)
I've found some Hornady 200gr RN for reloading and will practice with those, but I'll always use those Rem 200gr for hunting (as long as I can find them at least, a recent look on Remington's website did not have the .35, 200gr RN listed as a current product, only the 150gr)
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
^^
I've not had the time or the weather (both trips out with this 81 have been at ~15F and blowing!) to do much shooting, but I'd have to agree that the rifle seemed to like the 200gr RN both in handling and accuracy. Shooting off-hand at 50yds, I got 4 in a 3" spread without trying. With gloves.
That's the rifle and ammo, not me, for sure.
And the recoil was quite mild, even compared to the 150s.
Dale
Edit: Ha, Sarge! It wasn't THAT cold! Sorry, the little squiggly (~) does look like a minus (-) for me, too, even with my bifocals. And although I'm an occasional ice climber as well and will venture out often in miserable conditions for that, I'm not likely to be out if it's below 0F unless I absolutely have to. That being said, I'll stand by my recoil comment for now; I was pleasantly surprised at the modest buck, even with the standard steel butt plate, with the 200gr ammo and the rifle clearly liked it.
I *did* give some thought to the temps affecting the FTF deal, but I don't know enough of either the metallurgy or powder dynamics to have any idea if that was a factor. It was too cold after a while to experiment, anyway, and all I was really doing was making sure I didn't have to contact the seller with deal-breaker issues. Looking forward to slowly-arriving spring weather to play around some more, though!
I've not had the time or the weather (both trips out with this 81 have been at ~15F and blowing!) to do much shooting, but I'd have to agree that the rifle seemed to like the 200gr RN both in handling and accuracy. Shooting off-hand at 50yds, I got 4 in a 3" spread without trying. With gloves.
That's the rifle and ammo, not me, for sure.
And the recoil was quite mild, even compared to the 150s.
Dale
Edit: Ha, Sarge! It wasn't THAT cold! Sorry, the little squiggly (~) does look like a minus (-) for me, too, even with my bifocals. And although I'm an occasional ice climber as well and will venture out often in miserable conditions for that, I'm not likely to be out if it's below 0F unless I absolutely have to. That being said, I'll stand by my recoil comment for now; I was pleasantly surprised at the modest buck, even with the standard steel butt plate, with the 200gr ammo and the rifle clearly liked it.
I *did* give some thought to the temps affecting the FTF deal, but I don't know enough of either the metallurgy or powder dynamics to have any idea if that was a factor. It was too cold after a while to experiment, anyway, and all I was really doing was making sure I didn't have to contact the seller with deal-breaker issues. Looking forward to slowly-arriving spring weather to play around some more, though!
Last edited by dale on Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
Dale.....Let me think about this for a moment......-15 degrees.....wind howling....only trips out to shoot the 81....Mild recoil....Hmmm...What is missing here? I`m thinking since I reside in "The Sunshine State" that if I was shooting a rifle in those conditions I`d look like the Michelin man with all the clothes I`d have on.Heck ,a 50 Cal. Barrett would probably feel mild. You have my respect for shooting anything when it is -15. That temperature may have something to do with the malfunctions you described earlier. I`d suggest after you clean it that you lube it with a dry lube or moly if you plan to persist in going outside when a sane person would be backed up to the fireplace. 
Joe
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
Wanted to stop and say thanks!
Due in large part to Sarge's encouragement, and a prolonged bout of rain, I finally got motivated to pull apart my newer 81 and clean the beejeezus out of it. Whoa, talk about gunk! However, no power tools used, didn't have any parts left over, and low and behold, bolt now locks back consistently on the empty receiver. Left the bolt together and just blew it out with compressed air, cleaned what I could reach, and applied gun oil. A quick trip to the pit yielded no FTF events, more testing to follow.
My only problem now that she's working well is that I've added a Marlin336SC in .35 and was thinking about finding my 81 a new home, but now I'm conflicted. Not a bad problem to have, but I'm in danger of exceeding my self-imposed limit in the safe and some hard choices may have to be made!
Dale
Due in large part to Sarge's encouragement, and a prolonged bout of rain, I finally got motivated to pull apart my newer 81 and clean the beejeezus out of it. Whoa, talk about gunk! However, no power tools used, didn't have any parts left over, and low and behold, bolt now locks back consistently on the empty receiver. Left the bolt together and just blew it out with compressed air, cleaned what I could reach, and applied gun oil. A quick trip to the pit yielded no FTF events, more testing to follow.
My only problem now that she's working well is that I've added a Marlin336SC in .35 and was thinking about finding my 81 a new home, but now I'm conflicted. Not a bad problem to have, but I'm in danger of exceeding my self-imposed limit in the safe and some hard choices may have to be made!
Dale
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
That is good news Dale. Glad that you got it working. The Marlin 336`s are great guns but when you go to the woods with an 8 or 81 you do it with a little more style. Take a look at those vintage photos that Cam posted for us. Heck, I`m thinking about getting one of those wool plaid coats and funny looking hats when I hunt with one of mine.It gets cold enough for wool here at least one day every other year or so.
Self imposed limits are great and I congratulate you having the will power to resist adding too many guns to your collection. I`ve often wondered just what too many is but havn`t found out yet. Had that deal with myself about limiting it to safe space. Solved the problem when it got full.........Bought another safe.. Just a thought.
Joe
Self imposed limits are great and I congratulate you having the will power to resist adding too many guns to your collection. I`ve often wondered just what too many is but havn`t found out yet. Had that deal with myself about limiting it to safe space. Solved the problem when it got full.........Bought another safe.. Just a thought.
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
#1. I smell another case of Jackitis in incubation. Dale there is no cure so might as well break down an buy another...
(Safe and Model 81 that is)
#2. Sarge, I just realized your Avatar image could be a '64 GTO, Lemans, Tempest. My first owned car was a '65 Lemans with the stacked headlights. Cool
(Safe and Model 81 that is)
#2. Sarge, I just realized your Avatar image could be a '64 GTO, Lemans, Tempest. My first owned car was a '65 Lemans with the stacked headlights. Cool
Phyrbird
SOKY
SOKY
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
Phirbird...It is a 64 Goat. I`ve owned it for past 25 years. Since you brought up the stacked headlights, thought you might be interested where the idea for them came from.A member on another forum (24hourcampfire) shared the following information with me..... David North ,was the designer and should be credited as being "The Father" of the GTO not John Delorean. Mr North was an avid bird hunter and while considering the design of the '65' model he had bought a new overunder shotgun to replace a SXS. Viola! He liked the looks of the overunder and the new Goat got stacked lights. To keep the dimensions of the fender slim and not too tall GE or Sylvania was approached about making a 5 inch sealed beam.
Joe
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
"...He liked the looks of the overunder and the new Goat got stacked lights."
Like an 8 or 81 with known history, gotta love the back story!!
Like an 8 or 81 with known history, gotta love the back story!!
Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
Really, Mitch! I agree!imfuncity wrote:"...He liked the looks of the overunder and the new Goat got stacked lights."
Like an 8 or 81 with known history, gotta love the back story!!
Joe, that's real interesting that a car designer took styling cues from a favored shotgun. Very cool, indeed!
Adam
I am a regular joe, consisting of 78% coffee, 12% hot air, 9% organizational abilities, and 1% luck.
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
Oh Yeah
Way cool Sarge, makes me long for the nights in Iroquois park after midnight.
Downshift, slide thru the curve, upshift go for the next turn; WWWAAAHHHH
Burn half a tank in one round of the park.
Way cool Sarge, makes me long for the nights in Iroquois park after midnight.
Downshift, slide thru the curve, upshift go for the next turn; WWWAAAHHHH
Burn half a tank in one round of the park.
Phyrbird
SOKY
SOKY
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
Thought you guys might enjoy seeing some photos of Mr.North and his design. I`ve copied and pasted the original account to me from" schrapnel" on 24HourCampfire:
"David told me the story of horizontal headlights vs vertical. He was raised in Billings, MT and hunted with his father. They were going bird hunting and he bought a new over/under shotgun as he preferred it to the SXS and when he got to admiring the look, he redesigned the 65 into the vertical headlights and made them smaller to keep the fender from being raised too high with 6 inch headlights. He had to get with GE or Sylvania and have them make 5 inch headlights to facilitate the stacked look".
Amazing the genesis of cars...
_________________________
This is schrapnel`s 65 with Mr North autographing it and returning from a drive. Wish I could have been there with my 64.
Joe
"David told me the story of horizontal headlights vs vertical. He was raised in Billings, MT and hunted with his father. They were going bird hunting and he bought a new over/under shotgun as he preferred it to the SXS and when he got to admiring the look, he redesigned the 65 into the vertical headlights and made them smaller to keep the fender from being raised too high with 6 inch headlights. He had to get with GE or Sylvania and have them make 5 inch headlights to facilitate the stacked look".
Amazing the genesis of cars...
_________________________
This is schrapnel`s 65 with Mr North autographing it and returning from a drive. Wish I could have been there with my 64.
Joe
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".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
Dale,
Apologies if we Jacked your post; have you a favorite muscle car from bygone years?
Or possibly a favorite firearm we could share the enjoyment? There are a lot of rachet Jaws here, but we have fun and help our Brothers & Sistas.
Apologies if we Jacked your post; have you a favorite muscle car from bygone years?
Or possibly a favorite firearm we could share the enjoyment? There are a lot of rachet Jaws
here, but we have fun and help our Brothers & Sistas.Phyrbird
SOKY
SOKY
Re: .35 Model 81 questions
Deleted my own post and pic... decided this was a bit too far out for a vintage firearm forum, plenty of other places to post pics of vehicles. 
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Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine