FBI Model 81

[CalFed]

I won a Remington model 81 at auction. Think it is an FBI model...

[81police]

dead ringer there CalFed. Congratulations! Would you mind sharing the serial number and we can add it into our FBI database?

[Rifleman]

WOW, finally a new post! Thought maybe everyone had given up on the forum. Nice gun, have yet to see a FBI model or any other 8/81 model other than standard ones in person. Nice rifle to get, you plan on shooting? I misread your post at first and thought you indicated you had won the 81 possibly at some raffle drawing or such. Was going to ask if ya wanted to trade my firearm I won at a local gunshop appreciation day. Brand new 410 single shot shotgun. Would have paid postage both ways.

[Fred]

I think it looks good. Have you picked it up fromt eh FFL yet? Is this a collector or is it something you're going to shoot? What caliber?

[CalFed]

dead ringer there CalFed. Congratulations! Would you mind sharing the serial number and we can add it into our FBI database?

Thanks, Cam

I won this at an online auction and as soon as it arrives, I'll PM you the serial number. It will be interesting to see whether it has ever shown up in your records in the past.

My new rifle seems to have some interesting features...early style receiver markings, but the barrel notches of the later model. the regular sights have been installed, which makes me wonder if this originally came with the sight holes D&T'd, but with a sight blank installed. The front sight does not look correct either.

Some additional pics from the auction...

[CalFed]

WOW, finally a new post! Thought maybe everyone had given up on the forum. Nice gun, have yet to see a FBI model or any other 8/81 model other than standard ones in person. Nice rifle to get, you plan on shooting? I misread your post at first and thought you indicated you had won the 81 possibly at some raffle drawing or such. Was going to ask if ya wanted to trade my firearm I won at a local gunshop appreciation day. Brand new 410 single shot shotgun. Would have paid postage both ways.

LOL...would you want some "boot" from me for that trade?

[CalFed]

I think it looks good. Have you picked it up fromt eh FFL yet? Is this a collector or is it something you're going to shoot? What caliber?

Thanks, Fred.

It is .30 Rem




I got it at one of those 200 gun online auctions and it hasn't shipped yet. And then there is the California 10 day "cooling off" period after it arrives. I'll post clearer pictures when I have it in my hot little hands.

I have a "civilian" .30 Remington model 81 that I bought years ago and will probably continue to shoot that one, although I'm sure I'll put a few rounds downrange with the FBI model also.

[Rifleman]

Wow! Pictures show it to be in great shape. Na, I'd better keep that .410-something for grandsons to shoot. Ifin I'd trade ya, I'd have to go out and buy new dies, brass, and other caliber needs. Something I always tell myself for a reason not to buy a firearm in a caliber I don't already load for. Said same thing before buying Rem 81's in 300 Savage, 30/40 Krag, 9mm, and a few others. Got sticker shock when I went to buy some 410 shells. WOW, for a pint size shotshell, retailers aren't humble to get close to 12 guage pricing. Never had a 410, grew up, started with a H&R 16 gu single shot (mid 60's), then went to 12 gu pumps and autos later on. Went to large gunshow in home state this last weekend (Des Moines), hoped to see some 8/81's, nary a one. Look forward to further reports. Good find!

[81police]

You've got a real treasure there, full of history. The FBI models went through quite a few transitions as testing & field use reports came back. Yours looks awesome.

[CalFed]

Thanks, 81 and Rifleman.

I'll post better pics when I pick it up from my FFL.

Since Remington apparently does not have (or does not share) purchase or shipping records, perhaps a different approach might work. There is a website devoted to the "olden days" of the FBI..."Faded Glory Dusty Roads of an FBI Era"

http://historicalgmen.squarespace.com/

Perhaps the FBI has some records of their Model 81 purchases.

Here is a letter to J Edgar Hoover from SAC Ralph Colvin requesting additional weapons, including "high power rifles", and Director Hoover's reply.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... letter.pdf

The website is treasure trove of old correspondence and might include some information about weapons purchases.

[CalFed]

One thing I'm interested in is finding out, if possible, what route these rifles took to get into the private market.

The FBI is not known for selling off their weapons to the public

[81police]

One thing I'm interested in is finding out, if possible, what route these rifles took to get into the private market.

The FBI is not known for selling off their weapons to the public

good question, i'd love to know the answer

[CalFed]

I got to my FFL and grabbed a few pictures of the rifle before it went into his safe for the 10 day cooling off period.

The barrel code appears to be NN O.



and here is the FBI take down screw

[Phyrbird]

Nice Pics. I have the takedown screw, the sights, a 30R rifle. Just not the FBI rifle. TTHHHPPPTTT
Of course with the loss of the Remington records, documenting FBI rifles is near impossible.
I noticed from your photos the rifle appears to be one with the brazed barrel jacket. Thats a reliability plus.

[CalFed]

Nice Pics. I have the takedown screw, the sights, a 30R rifle. Just not the FBI rifle. TTHHHPPPTTT
Of course with the loss of the Remington records, documenting FBI rifles is near impossible.
I noticed from your photos the rifle appears to be one with the brazed barrel jacket. Thats a reliability plus.

Thanks, Phyrbird.

This has been a 10 year odyssey for me. I've run into FBI model 81's twice during that time, Price always ran too high for me.

In March 2014, I watched this one go for nearly 3K...
https://poulinantiques.hibid.com/lot/14 ... uto-rifle-




Sometime later I watched this one go for $3600...
https://www.proxibid.com/Firearms-Milit ... n/26405161




In ten years, those are the only two FBI models I ever saw. Until now.

[Fred]

I noticed from your photos the rifle appears to be one with the brazed barrel jacket.

How can you tell the jacket's brazed, from there being no pin in the yoke on the left-hand side?

[CalFed]

The barrel jacket has the grooves used for the induction brazing.

[CalFed]

I finally brought home the rifle and got to look at it more closely.

The rifle displays characteristics of both the early model FBI model 81 ("stacked" model, manufacturer and serial number markings on the receiver, Lyman 41 sight) and the later FBI model 81 (grooves in the barrel jacket, standard rear sight, etc). One theory that I had was that since these are take down rifles, perhaps someone at the FBI had at one time mated a late barrel/forend to an early model receiver and no one had ever corrected it.

Well, scratch that theory...the barrel yoke bears the same serial number as the receiver...



So the mystery continues.

I also noted that the screws on the receiver have been staked. I've not seen that in any other Model 81...even the few FBI model 81's that I've seen


Can anyone identify the numbers stamped on the barrel yoke?


Finally, the barrel code seems to be "NNO". If I'm interpreting this correctly, that would indicate July, of 1944, which seems late for an early FBI model.

[81police]

Be of good cheer CalFred! You have a uniquely put together, authentic FBI 81. Let me address some of the inconsistencies and take a guess at what's going on...

Your barrel assembly is not original to the rifle. The hand stamped "16651" on the top of the jacket head was possibly done by the FBI. As you'll see there's another serial number stamped on the inside of the jacket head (placed by Remington)...22096. So...the barrel assembly of your rifle is still an authentic Model 81 FBI item, but it's a Late-Type or 2nd style assembly from another gun. The cool thing is that barrel assembly 22096 is one of only 4 known Late-Type/2nd style serial numbers recorded! Are you sure the date code isn't DNN?

Your rifle #16651 was probably manufactured sometime in 1941 and started out as a the "Early-Type" or 1st style FBI 81. The FBI had numerous issues with the 81 (which is why the Late-Type or 2nd style was transitioned). One primary issue was the loosening of the barrel jacket from the jacket head. My guess is that since your mis-matched Late-Type 81 barrel assembly was hand stamped on the jacket head, would indicate the FBI intentionally mismatched the rifle to resolve issues with the original #16651 barrel assembly.

[CalFed]

Thanks, Cam.

I wondered if there had been some sort of switcheroo with the barrel/forend and what you suggest makes a lot of sense. I wondered what the "22096" stamped on the jacket head referred to.

I double checked the barrel date code and will post better pictures. It is "ONN", rather than "NNO"...my bad.

I sent you a link to the original auction listing so that you can see all of the pictures...there are quite a few that I didn't post.