My first and I hope my last "Frankengun" (in .250-3000 Savage)

[cantgrowup]

Well... I bought a Model 8/81 "Frankengun" in what turns out to be 250 Savage. It was marked "250REM" on the visible part of the barrel extension, but after buying it and taking it down, it shows "250REM. 3000". It has a 1913 Model 8 receiver (SN 318xx) but with a Model 81 trigger housing and stock set, and Model 81 barrel shroud. The foregrip is the "beaver tail" style.

I assume that the barrel was probably modified from another rifle because there are two dovetail slots on opposite sides of the barrel. The rear was filled in, but the front is still open. It looks like a professional job where it mates up with the barrel extension. The front of the barrel was well machined with threads that smoothly accepts the grooved barrel washer and nut.

The magazine box has two side springs.

I had no idea of what the monster was chambered for so I tried my first ever "chamber cast". Three pourings later, I got a decent chamber cast. I took some measurements and got out my Hornady book, thumbed to the .25 caliber area and believe it or not, the book opened to the "250 Savage" page! The measurements pretty much match up to the casting. It said it was also called the "250-3000".

So... before I waste time and money buying brass, bullets, and dies, would this 8/81 be a safe gun to shoot 250 Savage? Are the buffer spring and recoil springs okay for this cartridge in this autoloader? I haven't taken the shroud down yet to see what's inside. It looks like it was a hunting gun, has a Marbles peep sight, and a shroud sling mount kit on it.

[Phyrbird]

Velly interesting
Model 81s are chambered in 300 sav, the 308 version of the Savage cartridges. I personally have a hard time understanding why Remington did not chamber the 250-3000 it's sister. It is a better performing case. Of course being recoil operated the 250 MUST have differing springs in the barrel sleeve. take care of what you got, aren't any more. You said there is a chamber cast, Check it closely with specs, if things are not swelled you might have a jewel in the rough. I am impressed with the mod to make a 81 stock work on a Model 8, looks professional & cool. Again the tang trigger guard screw is likely one of a kind. It means someone made a careful job of the smithing.
I also recommend carefully miking any fired cases (once you get that far) at the web of the case just in front of the extractor groove. Ken Waters Pet Loads series has several articles on this process. Take no chances
Good luck, if nothing is broke & irreplaceable, the chamber is good, & you like it this sounds like something many forum members would find Veelllyy Innnnterrrrlllesting.

[MinnesotaDan]

Is this a detachable magazine? If so, this is extra very interesting.

[cantgrowup]

Nope... It's not detachable. However, a very interesting fact is that when I pulled the mag box out of the trigger housing, a small semi-circular "shim" fell out in my hand. I determined that this was being used as a spacer in the recessed front of the trigger guard so that the mag box would not sit all the way down in the housing. Why? I don't know yet. Maybe the box depth and how it sits in the housing had to be modified to accommodate the 250 Savage cartridges. I've just ordered some factory Remington 250 Savage ammo and when it arrives and I get the gun back together, I'll see how it loads and feeds.

Cam coined the perfect phrase "Frankengun" and this gun fits the description.

[cantgrowup]

I've disassembled the bolt assembly and noticed something different from my other 8s and 81s bolt carriers. The "bolt lock pin" that holds the "bolt lock" lever does not have a hole drilled all the way through the bolt carrier. There is only a hole at the top of the carrier... and therefore no way I can see to remove the pin and the bolt lock lever. Good thing that this particular bolt lock doesn't need removal

[81police]

These pictures tell me your new-to-you frankengun was a labor of love for someone previously. Thanks for sharing all these photos, as I scrolled through them my interest and excitement grew. Having seen a lot of 8's and 81's its been a while since one really paused me like that.

I took a quick look at the chamber pressure, bullet weights and velocities of the 250-3000 and I thought, I'm hoping it's got 35Rem/300Sav springs. Would be curious to see its action operate through a high speed camera to see what the actions doing.

Cool gun

[cantgrowup]

I notice that the buffer spring is the stronger style, but has been cut down by the gunsmith to a shorter length.



I'm beginning to realize that this guy really put a lot of thought and work into this 8/81 hybrid. I am "hoping" that he tuned the entire gun to this cartridge. We'll find out when my 100 gr. ammo arrives. I will probably hold the gun around the backside of a large tree when I first pull the trigger.

Here is the Frankengun having been completely disassembled, cleaned, inspected, and reassembled. If it works out, then I won't feel so badly about getting taken on a GB unknown. I just noticed that Henwood's book discusses conversions to 250-3000 Savage on p. 233 and he advises that they are probably not safe, if the smaller diameter barrel was used to rechamber to the larger Savage cases. I will measure my Frankengun's barrel OD at the chamber and compare to that of my Model 8 .25 Rem barrel. The shortened buffer spring does worry me, though.



..... but I got my first ever Marbles tang sight in the deal!

[Bandersnatch]

I'm no gunsmith, but I'll take a look....

Seriously, if whoever built this used 300 Sav springs I don't see why it wouldn't work, provided that the barrel is thick enough. I'd be very wary of a rechambered 25 Rem tube, but if he used, say, a Savage barrel to do the conversion then you are probably OK. I don't know if those little 87 gr 3000 fps pills would cycle the action, but I'd like to try them.

[Phyrbird]

Bander,
The problem is not the spring but momentum; ie Recoil. A 100-120g pill will just not generate the same momentum as a 150-180g 300 Sav will. M= fps x mass (120g). At normal pressures for the savage rounds it would mandate the different spring. Perhaps even a different mainspring.
Trust me. I've fired 55-60g pills in a sabot from both 30R & 300S; the Recoil is not enough to function. Even with the estimate fps around 3300fps. Physics are a B***h. Perhaps this could be why Remington didn't bother with another caliber that would require more supply chain.
Although I really LIKE the idea....

[cantgrowup]

Well.... the factory Remington 100gr Core-Lokt ammo is on its way. I'll let you guys know if and how the gun functions. Fingers crossed!

[Rifleman]

Interesting conversion!!! I really like the 250 Savage (250/3000) caliber. Have two Savage 99's and a Ruger 77 bolt gun in 250 and love the caliber. I to wonder why Remington didn't offer the 8/81 in 250, think it is a better option than the 25 Remington. On a Savage firearm forum there was a discussion why Savage didn't offer the 99 lever model in 35 Remington and Remington didn't offer the 8/81 in 250 Savage. Alot of the discussion was around both companies promoting their models with their own calibers. Makes sense, could have possibly been a 'pride' thing, although Remington did offer the 81 in the late 30's with the 300 Savage as it was a better caliber than either the 30 or 32 Rems.

Reference the 'Frankengun 250/3000', I'm thinking whoever did do the conversion had to have some machinist skills and gun knowledge and it probably will work. I'm curious on the first two pictures of the barrel. On the first on, just ahead of the barrel extension, it appears to be the outline of what could have been a sight dovetail that may have been filled in, welded, and milled. Just looks like it could have. ?????

Also on the bottom picture, there appears to be a sight dovetail on the bottom side of the barrel, ahead of the barrel extension. Can't say how or why, unless the barrel is a Savage (or other) 250 Savage caliber barrel that was milled and threaded to screw into the original barrel extension. Guessing whoever did the work had the ability to perform the necessary skills, including maybe taking a 300 Savage or 35 Remington buffer spring and cutting it down for the necessary 250 Savage power needs to operate the rifle.

Who knows, this 'Frankengun' may be one a 'Rose found in a weed patch' and result in a nice shooting 25 caliber rifle. Keep us informed 'cantgrowup'!!

[cantgrowup]

Yes Rifleman, there are two dovetail slots on the barrel (the rear has been filled). Last night, I loaded one of my factory .250-3000 cartridges in the magazine box, chambered it, and ejected it. Later this week, I will go shoot it.

I measured the barrels just in front of the barrel extension and at the muzzle of my .25 Rem and the "Frankengun" .250 Sav.

.25 Rem 0.867" at barrel extension and 0.482" at muzzle

.250 Sav 0.893" at barrel extension and 0.515" at muzzle

So, the "Frankengun's" barrel is not a rechambered .25 Rem. Maybe (hopefully) it's safe to shoot.

[cantgrowup]

Well... the Frankengun 8/81 .250 Savage shoots okay. Here's a six-shot group at 50-yds using factory Remington Core-Lokt 100 gr loads. I shot a total of 20 and had two stove-pipe jams of empty cases, so maybe the action isn't cycling hard enough with this load. I will measure the twist rate later to see what it is and whether I might need a heavier bullet for more recoil to better cycle the action.



As for the grouping, I'm having a really hard time with my 65-year old eyes focusing on the sights and the target simultaneously on an overcast day, so this was about as good as I can do.

So... I guess that I didn't waste my money on this hybrid. It shoots okay... is a really odd cartridge for an 8/81, and I like it. I now have all of the regular 8 and 81 caliber offerings, plus this odd ball.

[Intellivore]

When you talk about the 'mod' to fit the 81 trigger housing, what do you mean?

Could you post some pictures?

[Rifleman]

At 50 yards, I'd say it's a pretty good shooter with a group like that, esp if you discount the upper left flyer. The 8/81 rifles "ain't" 1" and less MOA rifles, even with a scope on them in most cases. They were made for huntin' and huntin rifles they are, although not being able to hunt deer or other large game in my state with them, mine are pretty much regulated to target work. If I can cover shots with my hand on a paper target, hit water filled milk jugs and large tin cans at 35-100 yards I consider my 81 shooting successful. Like the Savage 99, the Rem 8/81's are a throwback to 'days of old'. Fun shooting rifles with more history and enjoyment behind them than the latest whiz-bang, whatever rifle loaded with more dollars of accessories and gadgets than the rifle cost, and the latest $2000+ scope with the ability to see fly wings at 300 yards.

In regards to your stove pipes, after cleaning the bee-gebbers on my first 81 300 Savage action and barrel system, I was getting an occasional stovepipe. When I cleaned the bolt assembly, I didn't take it down, rather I sprayed it pretty good with pressurized brake cleaner fluid, then used compressed air to blow dry, then lubed. After talking with members on the forum, it was suggested that the ejector could be worn, dirty, or sticking, slowing down how the ejector should work. I pulled the bolt, disassembled, and cleaned the ejector area better. There was some dirty debris that was in there, reassembled, lubed, and so far all is well. I did buy a new ejector and spring that was in transient when I cleaned the bolt, but haven't installed it yet. Might leave well enough alone or install this summer.

[cantgrowup]

Intellivore,

If you look at the fourth pic in the first group of pics in my original post, you will see where a gunsmith welded a second angled stock bolt hole on top of the original stock bolt hole upper tang of the Model 8 receiver. This allowed the curved tang of the Model 81 to be fitted to the Model 8 receiver.

[Intellivore]

That's nowhere near as bad as I feared it might be. That'd be about the only modification I'd want to my 8, I prefer semi pistol grips, especially round head.

[Bandersnatch]

I love oddball things like this and I'm just tickled pink that it shoots as well as it does. I'd like to see what it does with 117 gr fodder.