New owner

[gcp]

Good morning,

I didn't know these rifles even existed but while minding my own business looking around the rifle racks it simply jumped into my arms begging to go home with me, see I have such an effect on guns, so I had to oblige! It was made in 1949, older than me even, and is as clean as they come. A few minor scratches on the stock but the barrel & rifling are in new condition, it obviously wasn't shot much. I suspect many people will say the same thing about my guns when I kill over .

I hope it goes bang when I take it home, there are only private ranges I was told, in MA & ME. Silly liberal rules and regs.......me says sweet home Alabama!

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0703/ ... odel%2081/

[81police]

gcp, that Model 81 is a beauty, congrats You're going to have fun with it!

[AKC]

That is a beaut! Have fun with it!

[jack1653]

Welcome to the forum. You have started with a very nice looking rifle. If you have any questions about these old "springpoles", just ask and we will try to get you the answers.

Regards,

jack1653

[gcp]

Thank you very much for the warm welcome gentlemen, I look forward to shooting my new acquisition and reporting back.

One question, how easy is it to retrofit this rifle to accept a 15 round mag and are they easily attainable? I am also a reloader so I'll be reloading for this 35Rem, a new found round for me.

[jack1653]

Hey gcp,

Conversions can be done. I have converted rifles for all calibers. Check my posting at this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2467

Regards,

jack1653

[gcp]

My goodness Jack, what a wonderful way to wake up, seeing all your beautiful rifles listed!

Glad to hear the converion is doable, and where does one get a hold of 15 round mags? Are there sources out there you can point me to?

George

[81police]

Peace Officer Equipment Co. stopped producing magazines in the late 1930's - early 1940's. They are rare and expensive, we've seen single magazines bring as much as $1100+

Crazy I know

[gcp]

Would this amount be in monopoly $? Not that the USD is worth more, now days

So, do you mean to tell me that the aftermarket hasen't come up with a reasonable 15 round mag alternative? Sounds like a gunsmithing and metalshop production project to me. I may know of a couple of folks that could pull this off, if they are interested in such a project. Shouldn't be all that complex.

[81police]

The magazines are constructed of stamped out plates of steel, the initial cost is what would probably get you...that is if you made them in similar fashion as they did in the 1930's. Once you get the tooling up you could make thousands for cheap, that is after you paid for initial setup cost (that's what I was told by a machinist friend).

The Model 8 & 81, I think, are increasing in popularity - one of the aims of this website. Even still I don't know what the demand would be for these magazines and could reproductions even be had at a reasonable cost? There is a little work involved in the conversion as not all two guns are identical.

I know of a guy who's been working on making reproductions close to the originals, but I'll let him announce when, and if, they'll be available. In the meantime, if you can find an original magazine you probably would never loose money with it as they're VERY collectible.

[gcp]

As longs as it is being worked on, and I'll do my part by buying a couple. Thanks again for the immediate feedback, this is one great site, glad I've found you!

While in NH I found a place to shoot so I'll report back after I put a few rounds through my new acquisition. The barrel nut is only finger tight and don't yet have the spanner wrench to tighten it further so I get no ratchet sound between the nut and the washer, could that present a problem while shooting?

I've seen a few of the FN, and other pics, posted here with all the intricate engraving and my goodness are they pretty! I know what's coming down the pike and don't like it a bit but as I said before it can't be helped

[imfuncity]

Shooting with a loose barrel nut, don't think that would be wise, although mine on occasion has had a loose nut on the trigger. Not sure about function as I have not tried it (even unintentionally) but it can't help. Creating a situation where you might strip the threads or the teeth, or even lose the nut would be a way-bad.

Prior to creating a tool (or buying one) I and others have used the chuck end of a drill bit in the hole with a piece of leather, brass, (or...?) to keep from scratching the nut, then an adjustable wrench - tightened it nice snug. Caution, no pipe wrench or vise grips, they usually result in trying to find a new barrel nut!

[gcp]

imfuncity, thank you for the alternative but can you please provide a picture if it's available? I can't quite visualize what you're describing with the drill bit in conjunction with the adjustable wrench. Problem is my wife and I are on travel and in a hotel room so I don't have my garage full of tools necessary to do this. I don't mind purchasing what's needed mind you but I'd like to make certain from you I buy the right parts and Saturday's right around the corner.

[jack1653]

Here is my thread from a couple years ago about the tool I made. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=293

Regards,

jack1653

[Roger]

Shooting with a loose barrel nut is not good on several issues. Besides the possibility of damaging the gun, if it becomes loose enuf while shooting, all semblance of accuracy will soon be gone too. The looser the barrel nut becomes inside the jacket bushing the more likely the barrel itself will not return to the same spot after each shot. It's actually alot like the Colt 1911 pistol system( after all they were designed by the same gun genius). I know this to be true from actual experience. The same thing happens to accuracy when those some parts get worn out. Hope this little tidbit helps you in some way.
Thanks for your time,
Roger

[gcp]

This makes absolute sense, thank you!

Now let's see how I'll fabricate this in a hotel room

[imfuncity]

I know what it is to be a road warrior. In my last last job the boss I looked at in the mirror each morning was a tyrant, one year I had 156 nights on the road and travel 70k miles, not counting airplane miles and rentals. As an aside, the handiest thing I carried with me for the motel room was a toilet plunger!! – ended up with 5 extra when I retired.

In your circumstances...

P8230006 (800x600).jpg (461.18 KiB) Viewed 18492 times

P8230007 (800x750).jpg (522.44 KiB) Viewed 18491 times

I would suggest a cheap set of bits (or a punch, can't have too many of either), a cheap farmer-socket set (adjustable wrench), and a roll of ¾” masking tape. Wrap tape around the nut, punch through to the hole in the nut each round, (3 wraps looked good but I did 4 just to be safe), snug up the wrench, push it high enough so it won’t slip, have one of the Dillon Press girls grab ahold the other end and go for it – real tight.

Enjoy - let us know how she does (love pictures).

[gcp]

imfuncity, simple enough a solution and yet I'm sure it'll prove effective, I'll do it!

I know what you mean about travel, the Marriott and airline employees knew me by my first name but a few years back I quite traveling and delegated to the younger engineers. This trip was my choice so I can participate in tests of particular interest to me so we drove up with my wife. I'll be at least not alone for 6 weeks. A coworker will take me to his mom's farm tomorrow in NH so I can shoot the 81, and I am thankful for that since that'll allow me to test fire the rifle and if something's major wrong I can return it. I doubt it's going back though, it looks much too clean and is built like a tank!

Again, my sincerest thank yous for all your help gentlemen!!

[81police]

gcp,

When you get back home settled in, modern reproduction spanner wrenches can be had via gunbroker, I'll put a link below. These do a VERY good job on the barrel nut but also double as a barrel jacket bushing tool. These tools are great to keep in a range bag so you can periodically check the barrel nut if you do frequent shooting.

One thing you want to be careful with, is anything that goes into the hole of the barrel nut don't let it go in too deep because if it does and you start torquing that nut you can damage the barrel threads inside.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =302701880

[gcp]

Cam. thank you for the additional info and the link, I'll order for sure when I return to the home base.....but what did the cowboys do without all these fency wrenches?

[81police]

I think in days past the barrel & jacket were rarely disassembled. When they were, often times, the wrong tools were used like pliers and vise-grips. That's why you sometimes see marred barrel nuts. We have the benefit today of having reproduction spanner wrenches to prevent these kinds of issues. For me personally when I take a barrel assembly apart I use Circle B's "Pro-Tools" because they're a little heavier duty (which is good if you've got an old filthy rifle).

Hope your rifle shoots good!

[gcp]

I hope so too Cam, I'll report back tomorrow evening.

[gcp]

So jack1653, since we are southern brethren of sort I feel compelled to ask, are you gonna help me find a police version of this new found love of mine? I sure do like the 15 round solution!!

Forumites, here's some of my other mil toys, I have a soft spot for multiple shooting platforms but please don't hold it against me:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0703/ ... %20Rifles/

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/0703/ ... %20Rifles/

[jack1653]

Well now gcp you pose an interesting question. Just how close are we talking about being southern brethern. The folks down here have yet to accept me as a native since I am originally from Illinois. I have been a southerner since 1984 and these good ole boys down here view anybody north of the Mason-Dixon line a "damn yankee" inspite of telling them I am a midwesterner and the yankees are from the northeast corridor. Now I have alienated my friends in the New England area.

On a more serious note, I will help you and anybody else to try and locate these hard to find and very rare police models. Buying them is another issue and proves very frustrating. When they are located, the price is quite high and you have to get in line to get one. The last one that I knew that was sold went for $6500.00 and I don't know if it had a matching magazine. I personnally find that price way out of line but not out of line if you really wanted one. Finding a complete set is darn near impossible. I define a set as the magazine and rifle both having the same serial number.

We know there were many agencies that had these rifles as evidenced by what we have seen, but there are very few records as to what has happened to these rifles over the years since they were issued to the various police agencies. Records are scarce at best and everything else is best guess. We think the LAPD had the most issued and several members have one of these issued rifles from that agency. There are several states whose State Police or Highway Patrol had these rifles issued to them but again records are not available to verify the numbers issued.

If you haven't read 81police's posting located in the Main Index, I suggest you take the time to review it. 81police is probably the best authority on the Police Models and has done extensive research on these rifles. We both have shot the Police Models and they are fun to shoot. We have burned up a lot of ammunition in both the .30 and .35 conversions and my carbine with the POE magazine. There are some videos showing the action, viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2293. We are trying to get together to do additional shooting with the new conversions that I have just completed; one in each caliber for the 8 & 81. I want to film my dear friend shooting the .300 Savage with the POE magazine to see how well the young man can stand up to the recoil of 15 rounds of .300 Savage. It should be a real experience.

I will keep a lookout for another Police Model, but will make no promises beyond looking.

Regards,

jack1653

[gcp]

jack, you think you have issues, I am from Greece originally and have lived in Bama since November of 1975. My sathern friends still call me a damn ferner, or simply Greek. But they do it lovingly so I guess it's all good.

I've read many of the pertinent posts, and have watched you and police burn quite a bit of ammo through the 15 round mags, impressive! You are right, the older I get the more my shooting shoulder seems to feel the recoil. $6500 is quite high, don't know that I'd like to tie up that kind of $ on a rifle but it all depends on how hard the moment strikes, I guess. On your mag conversions, do you execute them?

This is an AG42 Ljungman I was fortunate enough to acquire a decade ago and came from Sweden with a stock 10 round mag. I tried making a German 30 round mag work with it but was never successful enough to have it work reliably.



With the original 10 round mag

[jack1653]

Hey gcp,

I can relate to being called a foreigner becasuse they have called me that too among a few other descriptors. I guess if you are living in Alabama, that is pretty close to Georgia so we are "brethern". We are all brothers in Christ and glad to have you as part of the family.

I have done the conversions on all but three of my rifles. 2verpsters did the 8-.35, 81-.35 and the carbine 81-.35. He does excellent work and he inspired me to try the process. It takes a lot of patience but I learned from a good teache. I have done the other calibers in each model so that I can say that I have a set of "POE Conversions". If you are successful in obtaining a POE 15-shot magazine, I can do the conversion for you. I am waiting on some parts at this time to complete the pinning of the internals of the "set". Let me know when you find the magazine and we can schedule a conversion for you.

Regards,

jack1653

[gcp]

jack, thank you very much for offering to convert but after shooting my 81 for the first time today, I don't believe that I am man enough for 15 rounds of 35 Rem rapid fire

OK gang, here's the skinny; I was unable to tighten the barrel nut with an adjustable wrench and a drill bit but I did get it tight enough to shoot while checking every 5 or so rounds, and finger re-tightening when necessary. I guess purchase of the specific tool will be necessary after all.

The rifle shot very well, even though it demonstrated one failure to properly eject, on shot 6. Don't know what caused this one FTE but it was easily cleared with no additional issues for 12 remaining shots. I was shooting Winchester made, 200 grain round nose ammo. The accuracy was not as good as I am used to, and as shown in the below targets. It obviously shoots to the left and will need to be adjusted but what do you experts think?

3 first test shoots at 25 yards


100 yards

[AKC]

I wouldn't be surprised if that tightened up a little once you get that nut tightened.

And some more time with it....

Great shots so far.

[Roger]

If you don't reload, then give Hornady Leverevolution ammo a try. Most of my 35 rem. M-8/81 respond well to that ammo. They also drop deer as dead as a doorknob.
If you do reload, send me an email if you want some proven formulas.
Thanks for your time,
Roger

[gcp]

Roger thank you! I plan to reload as soon as I get back home so I'll very much appreciate your proven recipes. You have an email.