New guy, new gun, story, questions and problem!

[stallard]

Hello,

New to the forum, have looked around for quite some time. I have not found a better place on the web for model 8 & 81 info. On to my story, my Grandfather was a hunter growing up (mostly quail) he taught me to shoot and hunt but he viewed firearms as a tool. I on the other hand have always had a fascination whit how firearms work and their beauty. Growing up the only rifle he owned was a Model 8, when I was a teenager someone broke into his house and stole most of his guns, including the model 8. I never got to shoot it and always wanted to. Over the years I thought I would see one in a LGS but in my area they are few and far between. A few years ago I decided I wanted to find and purchase one, didn't know what caliber my Grandpa's was so I figure I would try for a .35 Rem since that cartridge is still produced.. I finally pulled the trigger a couple weeks ago, I got to shoot it last Saturday and I couldn't help but think Grandpa was there too.

Now for my questions,

First it seems mine only has on magazine side spring (missing the left), as I understand they form the feed lips of the mags. It appears to me that on my 8 that the magazine has the left side lips built in (see picture). Looking at pictures I see some with both and some with one. Is this a running change or do I need to find a left magazine spring?



Also my has a serial # 563** with a barrel code BW. From what I found that puts it manufactured January 1928. I think I correct but looking for other opinions?



Now for my problem, I am shooting Winchester 200grain power points. When I fire it always extracts, usually ejects but never picks up the next round, when fired as a single shot it will not lock back. I have worked the action by hand by using a dowel in the barrel to press it open. I cannot get it far enough back to lock the action open but don't know it it is supposed to go that far back or if momentum takes the bolt the rest of the way back? I have field stripped, cleaned and lightly oiled it. I am a pretty decent amateur gunsmith and feel comfortable tearing it down further after I get the spanner and barrel wrench. just wondering if anyone else has had this problem? if they found a fix?

Thanks in advance for the help and here are some pics of my new love.

[texassako]

Welcome to the forum, stallard. I am not one of the experts, but will give it a shot. I know that there were 2, 1 and no springs over the years. Yours kind of has that reblued and sanded stock look to it, is there evidence of that? I would disassemble the receiver and match everything up with the parts sheet to make sure nothing is missing, it is not to difficult. I would think somethings needs to be broken, worn, or misaligned to prevent the bolt from traveling all the way back.

[Roger]

Welcome to the forum,you've come to the right place for m-8/81 fans.
To address you bolt lock back issue,i've had similar issues when the magazine indicator was broken, bent,or broken. Also check out your bolt carrier lock,I had one missing in a m-81 I bought at a gunshow.It may actually be called a latch,not a lock,I don't recall.It also exhibited a similar problem.Texassako is correct about taking it apart carefully and checking to make sure that all parts are installed correctly and are not damaged,plus that they are even in there,as was my case.
Hope this helps,
Roger

[stallard]

Thanks everyone,

I disassemble it further last night, pretty much everything but the barrel, everything looked good, no crud all the parts are there. I probably should have been clearer on my initial description. The bolt will lock back when using the operation handle, I was trying to duplicate how it functions when fired, I use a dowel in the end of the barrel to push the barrel in, which in turn presses the bolt back. In the video of the function, the model shows the barrel and bolt traveling to the rear, then the bolt locks on its catch as the barrel returns forward, when the barrel get all the way to the front it hits a catch that releases the bolt to pick up another round.

Working the barrel by hand will not move the bolt far enough back to catch the catch, I can hold the barrel back then use the operating handle to move the bolt back the rest of the way, then it will catch and release when I let go of the barrel. Just wondering if anyone else has tried operation the whole thing by hand? and if so does theirs come all the way back to the bolt catch? I figure mine is correct and the last bit of bolt movement is caused by momentum of the bolt/barrel coming back.

I also wondered if modern ammo is too light to work the action? Usually modern versions of an old cartridge is hoter than the old stuff but have run across the opposite. I do plan to reload, have all the stuff but haven't turned any out yet.

As for Texassako's question, I know the stock has been refinished. The receiver and barrel are harder to tell, in the pictures it looks much better than it does in person. You can see lots of small scratches and the edges have lost their blue. I can see no evidence of sanding, such as shallow roll marks or sanded off sharp edges. In the end I would say that is was re-blued but it was a long time ago. I have let a few others look at it and they came to the same conclusion. For me it's a keeper and a shooter so it does not matter much.

[81police]

stallard, nice looking Model 8. And btw, welcome to the forums

You probably cannot push the barrel & bolt all the way back because of the force it takes to compress the buffer spring in the barrel jacket. It's a short, stout spring that slows down the momentum of the barrel & bolt carrier before they reach full recoil. You can compress the other spring in the barrel jacket (recoil spring) relatively easy, but that buffer spring is tough.

Out of curiosity, have you tried any other brands of ammo like Remington or Federal to see if you experience the same issue?

[stallard]

Thanks 81Police,

I figured that spring was way to tough for me to compress by hand. The only other ammo I have found locally is Hornady LeverRevolution. Don't know how well it would function in a semi-auto. Going to another shop today and will see if they have any other brands, if not I will order. Also plan to work up some reloads this weekend.

Thanks again for all the replies, this sight has a ton of info, beautiful rifles and seems everyone is very nice.

[Roger]

Stallard, I've used Leverevolution factory ammo,the leverev. Powder by Hodgen, and the ftx bullets by Hornady. All with good success on paper and deer. They all function well in m-8/81 s that I own in 35 rem. Caliber. Good accuracy is a simple thing when using these great products. They all have worked well for me.Maybe they will in your m-8 too.
Thanks for your time,
Roger

[texassako]

As for Texassako's question, I know the stock has been refinished. The receiver and barrel are harder to tell, in the pictures it looks much better than it does in person. You can see lots of small scratches and the edges have lost their blue. I can see no evidence of sanding, such as shallow roll marks or sanded off sharp edges. In the end I would say that is was re-blued but it was a long time ago. I have let a few others look at it and they came to the same conclusion. For me it's a keeper and a shooter so it does not matter much.

I asked that because most people can disassemble things, but not everyone can put them back together correctly. It is a nice clean gun, all mine are shooter grade as well.

I hope the Leverevolution ammo gets it to cylce. My M81 liked it and it was the most accurate factory ammo, but it definitely seemed to have a bit more kick than the others. I wonder if some dried up old oil or crud could be in there somewhere, seems like a lot of people find their barrel assembly has never been disassembled and cleaned.

[stallard]

Thanks everyone,

Just ordered the Pro Take Down tools from CBR and picked up some LeverRevolution ammo from the Gun shop, even got a job offer in the process. Been out of full time work for almost 2 years, go in tomorrow to meet with the owner and see if we can come to terms.

Got to help a friend move this weekend so probably won't get a chance to shoot but probably better off to wait for the tools first and do a thorough clean first anyhow.

What did we do before the internet when we had a problem?

[Wildgoose]

Be sure the mag spring is not in backwards. For me this caused failures to lock open and pick up rounds.

[Roger]

Wildgoose,you are right on the money,as John Henwood talks in his book about the magazine spring being installed backwards,and how it's the most common re-assembly mistake made. I believe this to be true also. I think it can cause feeding extraction, issues and make us believe that it's some other problem. Just my opinion here, but it might be your problem.
Thanks for your time,
Roger

[stallard]

Thanks for all the advice guys,

I got my tools to disassemble the barrel yesterday and tore into it last night. Tear down was pretty easy with the pro tools, every thing was pretty gummed up and the barrel had some surface rust on it. I cleaned everything and got a new recoil spring, then lightly oiled everything. I had watched the videos but soon realized they did not cover reassembly, getting the spring compressed, washer and nut started took some cussing, sweating and finally my wife's help but I got it and now it feels much smoother.

I have a couple different ammo types to try now also and will hopefully give it a shot on Monday.

Thanks again

Stallard

[81police]

Congrats Stallard!

Circle B Ranch also makes a handy little tool to help reassemble the barrel. A little too late I know but here's a link to the video on how it's done (no cussing necessary!).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3liHQ4RbcI