Just purchased on GB a 1947 Remington Model 81 in .300 Savage in good condition. I look forward to getting it out on the range to see how she shoots. Any and all suggestions for the rifle/caliber are welcome.
Also, the stock is in good shape, but the finish has come off _slightly_ around the metal buttplate. Was considering refinishing it with a careful application of Tru Oil, but is that sacrilege? I don't think I'll be selling this rifle, but in case I ever do, would be good to know.
To get a sense of its condition, my GB auction is still up at this time. It's here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =316846540
Have just joined the tribe
Re: Have just joined the tribe
A Big Welcome from a fellow 8/81 addict. You have done well my friend.I`m glad I didn`t see the listing on GB or I would have added another 81 in its most powerful and desirable caliber to my collection. From the excellent photos on the listing it appears you have a very solid original piece. The only detractor might be the addition of the Williams peep sight and this only because it required the drilling of a couple extra holes in the rear of the receiver.Other peeps offered for this rifle used the single factory drilled hole.I wouldn`t worry too much about that because while it may have a slight negative impact in future years as to collector status you will have the benefit of a peep sight with windage adjustment as opposed to the fixed windage on most of the other sights that were offered. The original rear sight that was removed also has the correct cover plate installed,another bonus.All in all a very handsome piece and a ready to go hunt woods rifle.
As to the advice sought i.e., 300 Savage Cal.and your question regarding stock refinish with Tru-oil . The 300 Savage round has been with us longer than most anyone reading this. The original rifle it was made for was the Savage 99 in 1920.The idea that drove development was to have a round that would approach the ballistics and power of the 30-06 but fit the short action of the 99. While not achieving the same level as the 30-06 Savage arms had created IMHO the finest deer hunting round ever seen.Very popular and chambered by many firearms makers it fell by the wayside with the development of the more powerful 308 Winchester some 30 years later.The design must have been pretty good because it was the parent case for the 308. Approaching a hundred years old I think you will find that the 300 Savage is a more than adequate round for hunting most anything walking in North America. The only drawback I have found when reloading it is the short neck does not lend itself to long bullets.I load 150 and 180gr Remington core-lokt bullets at 2700/2500 fps. Deer typically do not take a step after impact if shot in the kill zone.
Tru-Oil.........It has its place and some people actually have pretty good results with it.I use it sparingly and most of the time as a final finish over other products when trying to attain some extra gloss. If this was my 81 I would stop short of a refinish. The wood I saw pictured is a good candidate for a facelift and repair. For that I would suggest another product to you.It is Arrow stock finish and Arrow Klean and Bright stock cleaner. If you do a search for them on Bing or Google you will find several places that carry them.Four ounce bottle of each less than $20 bucks plus shipping. The areas on your wood that have a lifting of the finish such as at the buttplate can be repaired without refinishing the entire stock.The scuffed areas on the forend likewise. Remingtons, including modern production models seem to suffer lifting of the finish at the buttplate.This is due to raw wood under that plate that allows moisture to enter the grain end of the wood. Don`t know why when manufactured they don`t seal it but you can do it when you do your repair.Two or three coats of Arrow on that raw wood and you won`t have the lifting finish problem again. Should you decide to go that route and have any questions the instructions don`t answer send me a PM or post it for others to share.
Again welcome and thanks for saving me from another addition to an overcrowded safe.
Joe
As to the advice sought i.e., 300 Savage Cal.and your question regarding stock refinish with Tru-oil . The 300 Savage round has been with us longer than most anyone reading this. The original rifle it was made for was the Savage 99 in 1920.The idea that drove development was to have a round that would approach the ballistics and power of the 30-06 but fit the short action of the 99. While not achieving the same level as the 30-06 Savage arms had created IMHO the finest deer hunting round ever seen.Very popular and chambered by many firearms makers it fell by the wayside with the development of the more powerful 308 Winchester some 30 years later.The design must have been pretty good because it was the parent case for the 308. Approaching a hundred years old I think you will find that the 300 Savage is a more than adequate round for hunting most anything walking in North America. The only drawback I have found when reloading it is the short neck does not lend itself to long bullets.I load 150 and 180gr Remington core-lokt bullets at 2700/2500 fps. Deer typically do not take a step after impact if shot in the kill zone.
Tru-Oil.........It has its place and some people actually have pretty good results with it.I use it sparingly and most of the time as a final finish over other products when trying to attain some extra gloss. If this was my 81 I would stop short of a refinish. The wood I saw pictured is a good candidate for a facelift and repair. For that I would suggest another product to you.It is Arrow stock finish and Arrow Klean and Bright stock cleaner. If you do a search for them on Bing or Google you will find several places that carry them.Four ounce bottle of each less than $20 bucks plus shipping. The areas on your wood that have a lifting of the finish such as at the buttplate can be repaired without refinishing the entire stock.The scuffed areas on the forend likewise. Remingtons, including modern production models seem to suffer lifting of the finish at the buttplate.This is due to raw wood under that plate that allows moisture to enter the grain end of the wood. Don`t know why when manufactured they don`t seal it but you can do it when you do your repair.Two or three coats of Arrow on that raw wood and you won`t have the lifting finish problem again. Should you decide to go that route and have any questions the instructions don`t answer send me a PM or post it for others to share.
Again welcome and thanks for saving me from another addition to an overcrowded safe.
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Re: Have just joined the tribe
Sarge,
Yep, for some reason this auction was overlooked. The guy had a Kreiger as well that he sold for ~$600, which to my mind was a steal (but I am new to this, so may be wrong).
Great advice on the stock refinish/facelift. I shall investigate.
Core-Lokt appear to be the recommendation for .300 Savage, and it makes sense. I live in the PRK, so Core-Lokt is fine for shooting paper, but not fine for shooting in the "California Condor Area". I shall have to try a few "CA Approved Non-Lead" rounds to see how they do.
I am just now getting into reloading. I bought a Rockchucker and have the .300 Savage Lee dies as well. That's the next project.
Yep, for some reason this auction was overlooked. The guy had a Kreiger as well that he sold for ~$600, which to my mind was a steal (but I am new to this, so may be wrong).
Great advice on the stock refinish/facelift. I shall investigate.
Core-Lokt appear to be the recommendation for .300 Savage, and it makes sense. I live in the PRK, so Core-Lokt is fine for shooting paper, but not fine for shooting in the "California Condor Area". I shall have to try a few "CA Approved Non-Lead" rounds to see how they do.
I am just now getting into reloading. I bought a Rockchucker and have the .300 Savage Lee dies as well. That's the next project.
Re: Have just joined the tribe
And welcome from another so afflicted.
I have several Rems with wood in the condition of yours, considered it the price I pay for enjoying Rems, and/or I'm just too chicken to touch them.
Found your seller, wanted to know why I missed his Krieger, did some digging... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =316846896
Believe he got a fair price for a rifle with modifications and he did very well informing the buyer - indeed it would have looked very nice with mine.
Glad you were able to convincing him that those of us behind enemy lines need stuff too, maybe even more so then those in the free states.
I have several Rems with wood in the condition of yours, considered it the price I pay for enjoying Rems, and/or I'm just too chicken to touch them.
Found your seller, wanted to know why I missed his Krieger, did some digging... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =316846896
Believe he got a fair price for a rifle with modifications and he did very well informing the buyer - indeed it would have looked very nice with mine.
Glad you were able to convincing him that those of us behind enemy lines need stuff too, maybe even more so then those in the free states.Though defensive violence will always be “a sad necessity” in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men. - St. Augustine
Re: Have just joined the tribe
Welcome aboard,from another Rem. 8/81 nutcase. Sarge is spot-on with the Arrow products.I've used them with good results for low impact repair work. Also just good old fashioned linseed oil will sometimes work for limited repair work.
Good luck with your 81 and by all means have fun with it.
Thanks for your time
Roger
Good luck with your 81 and by all means have fun with it.
Thanks for your time
Roger
Roger
raw4555@gmail.com
raw4555@gmail.com
Re: Have just joined the tribe
Thanks for all the great information and the well-wishes. I have a 100 rounds of .300 Savage coming to my door this week, and I'll take her out as soon as I am confident that she's sound.
Two questions:
1. How much should the barrel be reciprocating in the shroud when I push down on it with my thumb? I can feel a slight movement down, but not much, and just want to make sure that's normal.
2. From my read of the threads, I can use 1891 Argentine Mauser stripper clips for my Model 81 in .300 Savage. Is this accurate?
P.S. Yes, the seller was very kind in allowing me (behind enemy lines here in California, as you say) to purchase. I contacted him and asked nicely. He is an excellent seller - made good on all commitments, great communication, etc., so if you see something you like that he's selling, buy with confidence.
Two questions:
1. How much should the barrel be reciprocating in the shroud when I push down on it with my thumb? I can feel a slight movement down, but not much, and just want to make sure that's normal.
2. From my read of the threads, I can use 1891 Argentine Mauser stripper clips for my Model 81 in .300 Savage. Is this accurate?
P.S. Yes, the seller was very kind in allowing me (behind enemy lines here in California, as you say) to purchase. I contacted him and asked nicely. He is an excellent seller - made good on all commitments, great communication, etc., so if you see something you like that he's selling, buy with confidence.
Re: Have just joined the tribe
The .300 Savage is probably the best chambering available in the M81 for the deer (or larger game) hunter, as it can be loaded to the same ballistics as the .308 Winchester, and very close to the .30-'06. I've given a little history about the cartridge before, but it is interesting to note that it was the immediate predecessor of the 7.62 X 51mm NATO military cartridge. In the late stages of WWII, the US Army decided it needed to start looking at lighter, more compact rifles having full automatic capability. That development required a shorter cartridge, and the first one evaluated was the .300 Savage. However, after some development, the Army decided that a longer case neck was required for better bullet support during full automatic firing. After additional development, the 7.62mm NATO was born (AKA .308 Winchester), which is actually not much more than the .300 Savage with a longer neck. As you have the .300 Savage dies, you can easily form .300 Savage cases from .308 cases in one pass through the FL resizing die, but you do have to trim the case necks back to the correct length. This is valuable as .300 Savage is not tho most common round to be found on any dealer's shelf, and can be a little expensive when it is found. .308/7.62 brass is cheap and very available. I would avoid using Federal cases, as the Federal neck walls seem a little thicker than Remington, Winchester, or military brass. I use a copper tubing cutter for the initial trim before using my Forster neck trimmer.
You can use most any military stripper clip for the .30-'06, 7.62mm NATO, or 8mm Mauser for the .300 Savage - same base diameter. Those are readily available at gun shows, etc. and are cheap. I have dozens of them.
You can use most any military stripper clip for the .30-'06, 7.62mm NATO, or 8mm Mauser for the .300 Savage - same base diameter. Those are readily available at gun shows, etc. and are cheap. I have dozens of them.
Re: Have just joined the tribe
Thanks! Wow, super-helpful information. I literally have boxes of .308 stripper clips, so I'll give them a go. Good to hear that I can resize .308 cases to .300 Savage - I'd read some conflicting views on that, and great tip on the "no Federal".
Re: Have just joined the tribe
Re-forming .308 brass works fine, except for the little effort required to trim the neck (you need do that but one time), and I have re-formed all brands (including GI). I have used Federal .308 brass, but it required turning the neck wall a little thinner, and I have the tool to do that. Most reloaders would not. You will probably be able to load only four .300 Savage rounds in your magazine (I have two M81s in .300, and neither will hold more than 4 rounds in the magazine). Maybe yours will hold 5.
I think the best use for a stripper clip is simply to carry around ammunition in your pocket more neatly. Not much reason for rapid reloading for hunting or casual shooting, as you don't have a combat rifle. There is a little trick to easing loading the magazine. Load the round by pushing it into the magazine vertically (bullet up), then just tip it forward.
If you haven't fired it yet, you will find the M81 in .300 Savage is not the most pleasant rifle you will ever fire. Recoil can be most disturbing when shooting from a bench.
Regarding finish, the best way to clean the existing finish is to wipe it down with mineral spirits (paint thinner). The problem with partial finish repairs is that it may not blend into the existing finish so well. My personal favorite finish is Tung oil. Some use polyurethane. If you do use something like Tru Oil or Linspeed (both of which are "boiled" linseed oil), it is best to dilute it with mineral spirits. It spreads more easily and penetrates into the wood. I notice Wal-Mart carries a quart can of boiled linseed oil for about $8.00, and the label even gives directions for using it for gunstock finishing. That's a lot cheaper than Linspeed or Tru Oil. "Boiled" does not mean it was actually boiled. Rather, it means that it contains an ingredient that allows it to harden and cure rapidly. I don't particularly like a linseed oil finish as it appears too glossy to suit my taste. If you ever decide to completely refinish the wood, DON'T sand the old finish off under any circumstances. Rather wipe it down with Acetone (which dissolves the old finish) and paper towels until you get to bare wood. Then you can steam out any dents or fill any gouges or deep scratches and re-finish what ever way you wish. There are about as many ways to refinish a stock as there are people who refinish stocks.
I think the best use for a stripper clip is simply to carry around ammunition in your pocket more neatly. Not much reason for rapid reloading for hunting or casual shooting, as you don't have a combat rifle. There is a little trick to easing loading the magazine. Load the round by pushing it into the magazine vertically (bullet up), then just tip it forward.
If you haven't fired it yet, you will find the M81 in .300 Savage is not the most pleasant rifle you will ever fire. Recoil can be most disturbing when shooting from a bench.
Regarding finish, the best way to clean the existing finish is to wipe it down with mineral spirits (paint thinner). The problem with partial finish repairs is that it may not blend into the existing finish so well. My personal favorite finish is Tung oil. Some use polyurethane. If you do use something like Tru Oil or Linspeed (both of which are "boiled" linseed oil), it is best to dilute it with mineral spirits. It spreads more easily and penetrates into the wood. I notice Wal-Mart carries a quart can of boiled linseed oil for about $8.00, and the label even gives directions for using it for gunstock finishing. That's a lot cheaper than Linspeed or Tru Oil. "Boiled" does not mean it was actually boiled. Rather, it means that it contains an ingredient that allows it to harden and cure rapidly. I don't particularly like a linseed oil finish as it appears too glossy to suit my taste. If you ever decide to completely refinish the wood, DON'T sand the old finish off under any circumstances. Rather wipe it down with Acetone (which dissolves the old finish) and paper towels until you get to bare wood. Then you can steam out any dents or fill any gouges or deep scratches and re-finish what ever way you wish. There are about as many ways to refinish a stock as there are people who refinish stocks.
Re: Have just joined the tribe
DWalt,
Great feedback here as well, thanks!
And I too am a Tung Oil fan. I make walking sticks, furniture, etc., and use Tung Oil frequently.
My Father and I just refinished a Browning BPS stock that was pretty thrashed, and we used Tru Oil. So many people (gunsmiths included) kept telling me that Tru Oil was the bee's knees, and I own a recurve bow that was refinished with Tru Oil and it's gorgeous, so I thought we'd give it a try. It's basically super-duper Linseed Oil (with extras), but it IS good stuff.
We knocked the gloss down by applying sparingly in many thin coats and hitting it lightly with very fine steel wool across the grain after every coat. The finished product is "something more than satin, but much less than glossy". I wish I could post photos, because it really turned out well - heirloom quality, in my book, especially in light of how thrashed it was before. It was our first gun stock refinishing.
The angles on this Remington 81 stock, and the lack of checkering, make me think refinishing it to a high standard will be straightforward, but I always try to "measure twice, cut once" and ask people like you a LOT of questions before starting a project where a screw up would be a disaster.
The mineral spirits/acetone ideas are good ones. I'll discuss with my Father and we'll come up with a plan (and "don't mess with it, screwhead" may end up being the plan - we'll see).
P.S. I purchased the Arrow products mentioned above, because you all seemed unanimous that it was a good product, and I like having a variety of products on hand. Options are good.
Great feedback here as well, thanks!
And I too am a Tung Oil fan. I make walking sticks, furniture, etc., and use Tung Oil frequently.
My Father and I just refinished a Browning BPS stock that was pretty thrashed, and we used Tru Oil. So many people (gunsmiths included) kept telling me that Tru Oil was the bee's knees, and I own a recurve bow that was refinished with Tru Oil and it's gorgeous, so I thought we'd give it a try. It's basically super-duper Linseed Oil (with extras), but it IS good stuff.
We knocked the gloss down by applying sparingly in many thin coats and hitting it lightly with very fine steel wool across the grain after every coat. The finished product is "something more than satin, but much less than glossy". I wish I could post photos, because it really turned out well - heirloom quality, in my book, especially in light of how thrashed it was before. It was our first gun stock refinishing.
The angles on this Remington 81 stock, and the lack of checkering, make me think refinishing it to a high standard will be straightforward, but I always try to "measure twice, cut once" and ask people like you a LOT of questions before starting a project where a screw up would be a disaster.
The mineral spirits/acetone ideas are good ones. I'll discuss with my Father and we'll come up with a plan (and "don't mess with it, screwhead" may end up being the plan - we'll see).
P.S. I purchased the Arrow products mentioned above, because you all seemed unanimous that it was a good product, and I like having a variety of products on hand. Options are good.
Re: Have just joined the tribe
You are correct about options.Not all cats can be skinned the same way.Sounds as though you have some experience with wood so the facelift shouldn`t be a problem for you.You won`t be sorry for adding the Arrow products to your tool kit. You realize we will want pictures of the "after" when completed.
Joe
Joe
".......ain't many troubles that a man cain't fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."
Re: Have just joined the tribe
Will be happy to oblige with photos if I decide to refinish!
Re: Have just joined the tribe
Early on in my gun collecting career,I was taught by some old school collectors,to use the 50% rule when contemplating refinishing any firearm. If the original finish is less than 50% ,then any refinish/refurbish work probably won't hurt the value. This also depends on the gun we're talking about. For an example, a Winchester model 64 carbine in 219 zipper is darn near priceless,so any re-do would kill the value of it. But for most guns that rule would hold true. If your intention is to keep @ shoot it,then do what you feel is right for you. Not what anyone else feels is right.I personally can't tell from the posted pics if the finish on your wood needs any attention or not.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
Thanks for your time,
Roger
Roger
raw4555@gmail.com
raw4555@gmail.com
Re: Have just joined the tribe
I agree, Roger, with everything you posted here.
I have this image that keeps popping up in my mind.
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety. ... 508000.jpg
Mmm, that's tasty. I may not be able to resist.
Besides, it will be worth more after I put the EOTech on it.
Juuust kidding guys. Haha!
I have this image that keeps popping up in my mind.
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety. ... 508000.jpg
Mmm, that's tasty. I may not be able to resist.
Besides, it will be worth more after I put the EOTech on it.
Juuust kidding guys. Haha!
Re: Have just joined the tribe
Oh, and a brief update - I have Hornady SST 150gr 300 Savage in house as of today, and I loaded them up on .308 Win stripper clips from NCStar (milspec, as far as I can tell). They loaded on the clip with no issues. The stripper clip is juuuust a bit too wide to feed into the stripper clip guide on my Model 81, but I might tinker with one of the stripper clips to see if I can fix that.
As mentioned above in the thread by DWalt, it's not like I really will need to feed the rifle from the stripper clip (I don't think I'll be using this boomstick against anything that is going to be shooting back!), so for now just being able to carry the ammunition on the clips is good enough. Also, I found an old used American-made (hurray!) Boyt 46" shotgun bag with the side-pocket this week at my local gun store, and the '81 fits like a glove in the bag, and four stripper clips of ammunition fit nicely in the side-pocket. That was pleasing, and makes for a nice package.
As for how many rounds will fit in my '81, I'm going to have to wait on that. I put one round in and it fit fine and the spring/follower functioned normally, but then I chickened out in terms of loading more rounds. I had a slamfire once from a used/then-new-to-me rifle (in .30-06!), and I do not care to repeat that experience. So I'll be taking this to the range in a week or so (want to get the tools to take the barrel down first, to confirm all is well inside), and will let y'all know how many round fit, and how she duz.
As mentioned above in the thread by DWalt, it's not like I really will need to feed the rifle from the stripper clip (I don't think I'll be using this boomstick against anything that is going to be shooting back!), so for now just being able to carry the ammunition on the clips is good enough. Also, I found an old used American-made (hurray!) Boyt 46" shotgun bag with the side-pocket this week at my local gun store, and the '81 fits like a glove in the bag, and four stripper clips of ammunition fit nicely in the side-pocket. That was pleasing, and makes for a nice package.
As for how many rounds will fit in my '81, I'm going to have to wait on that. I put one round in and it fit fine and the spring/follower functioned normally, but then I chickened out in terms of loading more rounds. I had a slamfire once from a used/then-new-to-me rifle (in .30-06!), and I do not care to repeat that experience. So I'll be taking this to the range in a week or so (want to get the tools to take the barrel down first, to confirm all is well inside), and will let y'all know how many round fit, and how she duz.
Re: Have just joined the tribe
I tried the 7.62 NATO stripper clips in my 81, and as you found they are a little too wide to fit. But Springfield and Mauser clips fit fine, and I have lots of those also. I have never used any of them for loading in my 81s.
If you want to determine your magazine capacity, just remove the barrel.
If you want to determine your magazine capacity, just remove the barrel.
Re: Have just joined the tribe
DWalt,
Of course! Why didn't I think of that.
The answer is 4 rounds fit in the magazine. So it's a 4+1 if you're careful in dropping the action, yes? Or should I not mess with that and just load 4 and let the bolt carrier strip a round and call it done? I don't want to end up with the Model 81 equivalent of "M1 (Garand) Thumb"!
By the way, I can almost get 5 rounds in the mag. It's just a little too small in there for the fifth round.
Best,
Sh1nk3n
Of course! Why didn't I think of that.
The answer is 4 rounds fit in the magazine. So it's a 4+1 if you're careful in dropping the action, yes? Or should I not mess with that and just load 4 and let the bolt carrier strip a round and call it done? I don't want to end up with the Model 81 equivalent of "M1 (Garand) Thumb"!
By the way, I can almost get 5 rounds in the mag. It's just a little too small in there for the fifth round.
Best,
Sh1nk3n
Re: Have just joined the tribe
That is normal. It takes some serious force to compress the combination of recoil, buffer, and action springs.sh1nk3n wrote:
1. How much should the barrel be reciprocating in the shroud when I push down on it with my thumb? I can feel a slight movement down, but not much, and just want to make sure that's normal.
Cam Woodall
Site Owner / Administrator
Site Owner / Administrator
Re: Have just joined the tribe
Thanks Cam!
I am increasingly sure that this rifle is correct. But as it is a tool that makes small explosions right next to my face (I am a Lefty, so perhaps I am more attuned to that), I am careful. I'll know for sure soon enough.
Sh1nk3n
I am increasingly sure that this rifle is correct. But as it is a tool that makes small explosions right next to my face (I am a Lefty, so perhaps I am more attuned to that), I am careful. I'll know for sure soon enough.
Sh1nk3n