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Folks,

Before I begin my work day I want to make a post about one of my favorite US history topics - the firearms of the US lawmen of the first third of the 20th century.
As a 100% certified history nut, this particular area of research into the common or shared cultural experiences of early 20th century communities, and their various "peace officer" protective organizations covers very fertile ground.
Aspects of the role peace officers played in this time period ranged from downright criminal behavior of elected (and non-elected) public safety officials to the most heroic in nature.

An example that got me thinking on this today was that of the "gun thugs" or coal company guards, who were paid to protect the interests of coal barons by squashing efforts of miners to unionize. Many local sheriffs, town police, and deputies were paid off to do the brutal work of violently shutting down mine strikes and enforcing mass evictions of mine worker families from company "homes" in retribution.

In those days, it was practically a second Civil War in the mountains of Appalachia all along those counties and states mining coal.
This was where the Tommy gun, the M1917 Browning .30 caliber machinegun, and all manner of available firepower was employed by those on the "right side of the law", in effect creating a long-lasting state of undeclared martial law in many coal states for many years.

Switching gears to other regions of America in similar times, of course we had the continuing threat of lawlessness in many areas of the country where criminals took advantage of isolation and low population to ply their trade. When peace officers were outnumbered by virtue of limited small town financial resources, theft and corruption would thrive without real control.

Finally, the ongoing urban development of gang-style criminal enterprises spurred on weapons technology on both sides of the aisle.

I'd like to create period/regional "snapshots" of the good guys/bad guys and their likely firearms at some point to illustrate this idea.
I'll try and come back to this thread for this purpose.

OK, that's it! Feel free to jump in and add to the thought process!

Adam

90% Certified History Nut II, wondering if during that time period, you would classify the US Army/government as criminal or...?

BONUS ARMY - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
"...gathered in Washington, D.C., in the spring and summer of 1932 to demand cash-payment redemption of their service certificates. Its organizers called it the Bonus Expeditionary Force... while the media called it the Bonus March.

"President Herbert Hoover ordered the army to clear the veterans' campsite. Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur commanded the infantry (with junior aide Maj. Dwight D. Eisenhower) and cavalry (commanded by Maj. George S. Patton) supported by six tanks. The Bonus Army marchers with their wives and children were driven out, and their shelters and belongings burned."

(Sorry, it's a dragging-low-day-after-birthday-day and plenty tired of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCss0kZXeyE.)

Adam,
The other day a friend called me about a Winchester 97 that is stamped "Southern Express" on the side of the receiver. Did some research and found information on the Southern Express company. It was one of four major and a few minor companies that utilized the Railroads to transport parcels and packages across the country. Eventually this service became a "Govt" monopoly in 1917 as the Railway Express Agency. Southern Express however maintained independence until 1938. Railway Express finally folded after the Interstate high While doing the search I did come across some information that you may be interested in. It covers the Railroad Police and has some photographs on the website that depict some of the weapons used by their officers. There is one of interest to us John Browning admirers....an A5 or more than likely Remington 11 fitted with a flashlight (Pre Surefire weapons lights). take a look here:
http://www.therailroadpolice.com/

Joe

Now we know how ancient - I mean old - Mitch really is!

Thanks for the ideas, guys. Joe, that's another good research path to follow - firearms used by the railroad companies, coach riders, and so on. Good stuff!

To be honest, one historic event in the long and bitter history of the Appalachian "coal wars" triggered my thought process. The Matewan Massacre of 1920, which eventually John Sayles made into his movie, "Matewan", included all sorts of examples of weaponry employed by players of many allegiances of the times.

Gun thugs paid for by the coal companies, local folks who remained in the hollows long after most moved away after the Civil War, striking miners, the town Sheriff and various deputies - and, of course, National Guardsmen recruited for the effort by state politicians allied to the coal barons.

If you surf through the IMFDB - internet movie firearm database - you sometimes get lucky, and locate some nice screen grabs of such stuff. Turns out, "Matewan" has not yet been posted, so no love there.

However, even though it's been years since viewing the film several examples come to mind.

In one scene, several coal company gun thugs are surprised by three local hill folk, who approach suddenly out of nowhere with 1860's era caplock muzzle-loaders. When asked by one thug, whether his rifle was a leftover from the Spanish-American War, the local mountain man replied proudly, "Naw. War Between the States."

As Mitch suggested, the US military and especially National Guard could be found on either side of the issue, depending on who was politically connected. In "Matewan", there is a scene I recall where the Guard is enforcing a lock-out of striking miners and protecting scabs, with a Browning-designed M1917 .30 cal machinegun.

Just had to get JMB in there today!!

Adam

Yup, you guys are headed right where I was going... right on up to Katrina and Uniformed thugs in New Orleans.

As to age comment, got enough of those Tuesday - decided I'd go ahead and keep liking the Beatles song even if it was getting a bit tiring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCss0kZXeyE

imfuncity wrote:Yup, you guys are headed right where I was going... right on up to Katrina and Uniformed thugs in New Orleans.

As to age comment, got enough of those Tuesday - decided I'd go ahead and keep liking the Beatles song even if it was getting a bit tiring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCss0kZXeyE

I suppose a "happy 64th birthday" is in order, Mitch!

You only got a lead on me by 14 years!

I was wondering, did you get your Jeep A/C fixed for a birthday present for yourself?

Adam

Actually got a Ruger Single 10 for my birthday. But after function test she hid it away until my birthday ( then she forgot about it and where she hid it ) but decided I needed a new camera instead Nikon Coolpix P7000 (off the 24hrCampFire).
Couple of my first shots couple days ago, on one side of the house, then the other. Thanks for asking, got the Jeep's A/C fixed just in time for our 95s the other day; but tonight she said it was too cold - 80! Now if I could just get the drivers door to open from the inside, I'd be happier... took the door panel off but can't see anything amiss!

Oh well..., she found the Single 10, I shot it tonight - the oppose direction from the Jeep, guess I'm still in love.

Great pics IMFUN, if you're half as good a shot with the Single 10 as you are the Nikon, wow i'm impressed!

Yeah Mitch, great pics! You have the acreage I wish I had to live on, my man!

Sardine can living here, unfortunately - but my wife and I have been planning on a move south which should happen in a year or two.

Back to your Jeep.... .....you can't find the door latch link rod connector after taking the door panel off? I think you just had one of those plastic or metal clips come loose from the link rod that goes to the handle assembly. At least, that's what it sounds like from your description. Keep looking - maybe the clip end fell off into the bottom of the door, and you have to fish around to find it.

If I was your neighbor, I'd a just strolled over and fixed it for ya....

Back to the original topic, don't forget the Homestead Steel Strike of 1892 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Strike ) second in notoriety only to the Logan coal strike. Also the 1914 Ludlow Massacre ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre ). I think the latter involved the use of the Colt-Browning Model 1895 machine gun. Not too long ago, the History Channel had a series called "The Men Who Built America" One episode concerned Andrew Carnegie and discussed the Homestead strike extensively. Likewise, the History Channel once had a series called "Wild West Tech," one episode of which involved the Ludlow Massacre.

The single 10 is requiring a bit more attention then the camera - oh shoot!

Appreciate the clip tip, I'll do a bit more investigating. (Interestingly, both left doors now have the same problem. )

Whew...deep breath....exhale....

....and returning to the topic: police guns (and I'll include the "bad guy" guns too) 1900-1930..

.44-40 WCF - Colt SAA revolvers matched up with Winchester 73's and 92's are a fave combo, that is one I wish to acquire at some point. Used by both sides of the law well into the 20th century.

.44-40 Colt Lightning pump rifles would have gone well with that, too. I read that San Francisco police used the Colt Lightning rifles into the 20th century.

Some folks knock this one, but they were (and are) used for "social work" as well - the .38 Smith and Wesson - NOT .38 Special - there is a difference! Kind of like 9mm ballistics. I keep seeing these at gun shows - one vendor in particular.

Then there's the S&W .38-44, which eventually became the .357 Magnum....ok.

You get the idea....time for work!

Adam

During the 1900-1930 period, there were so many different guns used on both sides of the law that it would be a daunting task to cover anywhere near all of them in any detail. Don't forget the Thompson SMG and the Model 1911, both in .45 ACP. Seems I remember that the Dallas PD was using the Winchester 94 carbine into the 1990s, and it wouldn't be surprising that the Model 94 is still to be found in LE use in some rural parts of the country.